Thread: Annealing, neck turning all that attention to neck tension and true Centering

Hey guys,
I have not done neck turning or annealing to my brass at all.
I’ve been watching YouTube and listening to some F class shooters anal practices.
Are these just fun bits and nice engineering to play with?
Sure it makes a slight difference, if not, then at least it gives you that confidence boost.
Has anyone had a night and day difference with these practices?
Why do they turn the outside of the neck not the inside?

I got told by my gunsmith I’d have some fun playing with nice equipment and spend some time enjoy my money spent.
But I won’t be getting much result.

Are these flash reloading brass treatment gear just made to make money as new tricks?

I’m interested to hear everyone’s opinion on this.

All that is for the last 5%
If you do all that on a piece of shit rifle, you still got a piece of shit rifle.
If you have a well sorted action, bedded, chambered/reamed with care, done all you can and your looking for more.... Go for it, it all adds up.
Anealing will help the most... Turning is best for tight neck Chambers.

Originally Posted by bully

All that is for the last 5%
If you do all that on a piece of shit rifle, you still got a piece of shit rifle.
If you have a well sorted action, bedded, chambered/reamed with care, done all you can and your looking for more.... Go for it, it all adds up.
Anealing will help the most... Turning is best for tight neck Chambers.

Great info, thanks. I get enjoyment out of all reloading practices whether it has a 5% change in accuracy or 50%. Its great to hear what other people have experienced to balance my time and money spent.

if your a competion shooter every 1000th of an inch gained gives you an advantage over the other guys . . . if your the type of hunter who can't shoot for shit anyway it does'nt matter
anything in-between is all fun

Originally Posted by rossi.45

if your a competion shooter every 1000th of an inch gained gives you an advantage over the other guys . . . if your the type of hunter who can't shoot for shit anyway it does'nt matter

Not much of a hunter, but sure am not a bad shot. and my rifles are reasonably well set up, and most of them shot well 1/2 moa. That is why i'm going to see if the next step is worth investing my time and money.

Originally Posted by lee308

Not much of a hunter, but sure am not a bad shot. and my rifles are reasonably well set up, and most of them shot well 1/2 moa. That is why i'm going to see if the next step is worth investing my time and money.

which raises the questions . . . what animals at what range with which cartridge . . . is .5MOA not good enough already ?

now if you just want to go after the most accuracy i say go for it . . . but do you actually need it is a worth while question to ask yourself

i had a friend that got completely fixated on shooting tiny groups with a very accurate sako . . but seriously only ever shot Deer well inside 200yards, my .30/30 would have been good enough for him if he had been practical . . but whatever spins your wheels, as long as you enjoy yourselfn its all good, just dont kid yourself you need it

Originally Posted by lee308

Not much of a hunter, but sure am not a bad shot. and my rifles are reasonably well set up, and most of them shot well 1/2 moa. That is why i'm going to see if the next step is worth investing my time and money.

If I was you I would be annealing first. Get the neck tention the same every shot.
Check run-out of fired cases and after sizing. (The neck)
In saying that a factory load in a factory rifle can do .25 at times, maybe .5 is all your rifle can do. if you have worked up you best load, that might be it.... These other things help mostly with consistency.

+1 for annealing, if you're not doing this already then its likely to give you the best gains. You don't need flash gear, but of course you can go that track if you want. There's also a guy on TradeMe that will do induction annealing for you for ~$25 per 50. I think he's a forum member here too - cant remember his handle. That's probably a good way to start and see what differences you get. See other thread on here recently re impacts of annealing (or not) on case hardening & neck tension.

I anneal everything now, and have to neck turn for some rifles due to tight neck chambers, and/or im necking brass up to a larger dia (which requires neck turning afterwards to remove the thinker base of the neck you end up with).

A combo of annealing and also turning necks so that every case has identical neck thinkness will get you nice consistent neck tension across all your cases. You can obviously fine tune your amount of neck tension with the competition dies you now have.

If you like playing around doing this sort of thing (like i do) then go for it.

I did some testing with my 7mm SAUM when i first started annealing, shot my best ever group with it on the freshly annealed brass (compared to the fired a few times un-annealed brass). There is certainly gains to be had if every other part of the shooting system is up to it.

Originally Posted by GWH

I anneal everything now, and have to neck turn for some rifles due to tight neck chambers, and/or im necking brass up to a larger dia (which requires neck turning afterwards to remove the thinker base of the neck you end up with).

A combo of annealing and also turning necks so that every case has identical neck thinkness will get you nice consistent neck tension across all your cases. You can obviously fine tune your amount of neck tension with the competition dies you now have.

If you like playing around doing this sort of thing (like i do) then go for it.

I did some testing with my 7mm SAUM when i first started annealing, shot my best ever group with it on the freshly annealed brass (compared to the fired a few times un-annealed brass). There is certainly gains to be had if every other part of the shooting system is up to it.

After what I've researched a lot on you tube. I was shocked to hear what my gunsmith (who was a champion shooter) reckons. He said he didn't anneal or neck turn none of his brass but have won many championships and set records. He reckons I'll be wasting my time but will get some enjoyment out of playing with the gear if time and money is not a problem.

haha....... hard case guy but a Crack up to chat to.

Good to hear some other people's experiences and opinion.

Originally Posted by lee308

After what I've researched a lot on you tube. I was shocked to hear what my gunsmith (who was a champion shooter) reckons. He said he didn't anneal or neck turn none of his brass but have won many championships and set records. He reckons I'll be wasting my time but will get some enjoyment out of playing with the gear if time and money is not a problem.
haha....... hard case guy but a Crack up to chat to.

This view of annealing is worth thinking about, ideally from an unbiased perspective, if it is possible to set aside for a moment the amount already invested in commitment to annealing. Whether you believe that annealing improves neck tension consistency, or whether it actually does, are two different things. The latter requires a metallurgical explanation that I have yet to see, and the passing of time or improvements in annealing equipment are not changing the underlying physics.
Annealing can help stop necks from splitting from work hardening though - if brass in that condition is not going to be replaced with new.

Originally Posted by Puffin

This view of annealing is worth thinking about, ideally from an unbiased perspective, if it is possible to set aside for a moment the amount already invested in commitment to annealing. Whether you believe that annealing improves neck tension consistency, or whether it actually does, are two different things. The latter requires a metallurgical explanation that I have yet to see, and the passing of time or improvements in annealing equipment are not changing the underlying physics.
Annealing can help stop necks from splitting from work hardening though - if brass in that condition is not going to be replaced with new.

What I do know, is that before I started annealing, with the continual firing and resizing of brass I use to feel the increasing resistence to sizing the brass and even more noticeable was the increased pressure needed to seat bullets in sized cases compared to when they were new or fired less number of times.

After I started annealing the feel or pressure to seat bullets is now always consistent across all brass, I generally anneal every second firing.

But I do use bushing dies all the time for precision reloading. Set the neck size reasonably loose so it’s not working the brass as hard as the standard dies which is usually 4-6 thousandth too tight.

He's right in a way. If you start with a good brand brass the neck thickness hopefully is fairly good, and probably doesn't make too much difference. Also if he Chuck's his brass after 2 or 3 shots anealing won't mean alot. I've noticed my load go "off" at about six firings in a 223 for the different neck tention.

Also I'm guessing he was in compition a few years ago now.... Reasearch has moved on now... Look at the amp... And there reasearch, which basically says old technices of anealing were way off. Those days are over. Look at who uses a amp and there results, there machines are next level.

Originally Posted by bully

He's right in a way. If you start with a good brand brass the neck thickness hopefully is fairly good, and probably doesn't make too much difference. Also if he Chuck's his brass after 2 or 3 shots anealing won't mean alot. I've noticed my load go "off" at about six firings in a 223 for the different neck tention.

Also I'm guessing he was in compition a few years ago now.... Reasearch has moved on now... Look at the amp... And there reasearch, which basically says old technices of anealing were way off. Those days are over. Look at who uses a amp and there results, there machines are next level.

Good points made here, matey.