Thread: FL resized rounds wont chamber

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

So an interesting issue cropped up the other day with the Dirty Ackley....I changed from a radial brake to a directional brake due to the radial brake not really doing enough to reduce the recoil on what is a very light rifle (3kg ready to hunt) but decently recoiling cartridge....
I went to the range to double check zero and shot a couple if 3 shot groups, made a slight tweak on the zero, then offered my mate a few shots as he's a bit of a gun slut like me
he also shot a couple of really tight groups but commented that the bolt was a bit tight to close when chambering rounds
I had not experienced this myself but immediately suspected maybe I had not bumped the shoulder back enough when I full length sized the cases
Well it finally got the better of me so I checked the remaining 40 odd rounds and yup most of them were hard to chamber (I did not force them, stopped if I felt resistance), checked the fired cases for length just to confirm trimming wasn't the issue, it wasn't....out of 40 odd rounds I have 5 left that chambered ok looks like I'll be pulling the lot and full length sizing them then reassembling them.
To double confirm it was the shoulder bump I used a fired case that was also hard to chamber and wound the sizing die down until the case chambered nicely.....which I should've done form the beginning
Guess I know what I'll be doing on my next days off, I'm happy with the load, but will run a couple 3 shot groups through once I have re made the rounds to confirm that all is hunky dory.
I was a little too concerned about over working the brass and didn't wind the sizing die down far enough after fire forming. Due to the forming loads not being very hot they didn't require as much pressure when full length sizing to chamber nicely otherwise I would of noticed when I was doing my charge ladder (in hindsight I should've checked the brass chambered when I resized the charge ladder cases). The charger ladder loads were certainly full power loads explaining why some of the higher load cases weren't bumped back sufficiently. I hope that makes sense.
lesson learnt, hopefully this will help someone else if they come up against the same thing.




from Dannybs landcruiser...oops I mean dirty06

For a moment there I thought you had gone Wildcat. Still plenty of time though.
GPM.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

For a moment there I thought you had gone Wildcat. Still plenty of time though.
GPM.

Is it wrong that I read it and didn't realise until the second line he was quoting my thread

gotya!!!!!!

@BenTheBuilder
Something to try before further die or shellholder adjustment. Brass has a bit of natural "spring" in it. In a FL Die it gets sized down and often "springs" up a little in size again after release from the Die. Lube a couple of empty cases and ensure the necks are also lubed, inside and out. Run these cases fully up into the FL sizer die ( with your current setting where the shellholder comes up into full contact with the base of the FL Die ). Then partly lift the press handle so the case partly retracts from the die but not running the case neck over the expander. Then fully push the press handle down and fully run the case into the FL Die a second time. Then repeat, once or twice more. Yes, this is boring but sometimes works to just enough to overcome that spring a little, increase the bump and allows the case to chamber. Try chambering these cases. If a little resistance to chambering occurs that's OK as long as you can chamber without having to use great force.
The blacked out round in your pic looks like the major contact area for the case is on the shoulder suggesting to me a little more bump will be beneficial. A cost effective way to sometimes achieve this is by trying different makes of shellholders. You might find a shellholder a little shorter than the one you use currently that allows you to turn down the FL Die a part turn which might give you just enough bump for a good chamber fit. The next option would be to take a shellholder and grind a little off the top surface allowing the same slight turning down of the FL Die. But be careful to remove only a small amount from the shellholder as it needs to retain enough metal to work without failing.

"The next option would be to take a shellholder and grind a little off the top surface allowing the same slight turning down of the FL Die. But be careful to remove only a small amount from the shellholder as it needs to retain enough metal to work without failing."
But just 2 or 3 thou inch. Wet and dry will do it.

But first, have the cases been annealed? I see no mention. Could try that.

I had this problem recently with 1 x fired brass not in my gun. I tested pre sizing and it wouldn't even run up into the chamber, so I stripped my bolt and proceeded to set my redding die by testing the same piece of brass and slowly winding down the die until the bolt would just close. Finally got to where I was camming over and it wouldn't fit still, wound it down some more and I thought my press might break it was that hard to crank. Still wouldn't fit, changed to my lee die ran it up in there(with way less force) and it chambered nicely.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

do you pull all the tight loads...remove guts from FLR die and screw the bugger down a bit more like should have done in first place...

Well this didn’t seem to help much, I pulled one of the pills out of a round that I couldn’t even remotely close the bolt and sent it through the FLR die without the expander ball and decaying pin inside. Did this a few times with die set up as per instructions ( screw down to make contact with case holder ).

Had little to no effect 0.01 mm, so I wound the die in 1/3 of turn and repeat. Managed to move it a little more this time . At this point I could have Chambered the brass but with a bit to much force for my liking.

Now I can see that the shoulder of the case looks a little curved rather than the nice straight lines that I normally get. However I figure this round is probably poked so let’s see what another 1/3 turn does as I’m still very stiff to chamber. This time the case sticks and I call it quits for the night.

Drilled out the stuck brass and came inside to leave it for another day.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

I think I’ve got some Redding 7mmWSM dies if you wanted to borrow them to try and see if that fixes the problem

Thanks for this, I think I’m having issues in more than one place. If it comes to it I’ll happy take u up on your offer.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

I too have been there. There are two measurements that you have not given us that will help.
1. The length of a case to datum that has been fired in your rifle, and if possible
2. The length to datum of an unfired case.
The difference between your case that will chamber and the one that will not chamber is 0.2mm. That is shitloads. The shoulder bump we are looking for is only 0.05mm. The length of the fired case to datum is essential to getting your die set up properly as we are talking very fine differences.
Glad to help Grandpamac.

Unfortunately I do not have access to any of these at this stage, I will however be putting a new scope on in the coming weeks and be sending a few rounds into some paper which will give me some fire formed brass to give you the datums for. All my other brass that has been once fired from MY rifle has been FL resized and loaded up.

Originally Posted by zimmer

Can we just go back to posting #6. Can you confirm that the first picture shows a case that fits your chamber?
And the third picture shows a case that doesn't?
If that is the case the last picture shows a case with the shoulder 7thou too far fwd.
Your are adjusting your die to contact the shellholder and the screwing down maybe 1/3 more are you to take out linkage slop etc?
Don't get too hung up on overall case length. You normally have leeway with that and published lengths have a safety margine set in them. Each rifle can be different.

You are correct, at the point of loading those rounds I was only setting up the die to make contact with the case holder. I was not turning the die down to take up any form of slop.

Originally Posted by zimmer

If your trying to use brass not fired in your rifle as well as the datum point measurement it is useful to measure the base diameter 0.1 up from the base and compare.
I have second hand brass that although full length isized correctly for my chamber still wouldn't fit due to the base being oversize.

I checked a few and compared them to my current loaded up rounds that chamber and they where the same, one or two maybe 0.01mm different

Originally Posted by grandpamac

PS. My experience around 1980 was that some cases that I thought I had FL sized chambered well, some hard and some not at all. The fact as I understand it that you have some cases in the batch that you have resized that are OK and some that don't chamber. This tells me that your kit is OK but your technique needs work. Please do NOT go grinding anything as your kit sounds fine. It is just a matter of getting it adjusted properly. I assume that you are using a decent case lube.
GPM.

I have no doubt that it is my technique that needs work, I’m very new to this, I was using the provided lee tube of lube that came with the press and a foam lube roller pad.
I have now purchases hornday one shot spray lube as I wanted to be able to lube inside the neck.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

if your thinking of adjusting shoulder bump you ARE NOT full length resizing
you might be partial length resizing...but your NOT full length resizing...eg your die isnt contacting your base....so your round isnt getting squished back to the saami specs..... this is the balancing act..squish it enough to fit but not too much to overwork brass.
if your die and base ARE touching and you still having same issue...possibly a large die and small chamber. but it shouldnt happen.... the only other solution/reason given for this has been not lubing necks and the expander ball pulling shoulder forward when ball is pulled back through neck....

Also I’m still a little confused by this comment. Sorry. So in the future when I’m re sizing my fire formed brass am I best not to run it all the way to the case holder?

When using the lee lube you need to lube the inside of the neck also just in case you aren't doing that, I use a cotton swab to give them all a dose while sitting in the case holder.

Perhaps there is a forum member/experienced reloader locally to you who may be able to visit and see it they can assist solving your issue?
Most times "in-person" is much better than trying to troubleshoot remotely in my experience.

I would take a freshly annealed and trimmed case and set die as you have. Size and try case in chamber. Screw the die down a little more as required till the desired result.

I have a redding 708 die that needs an extra 1/4 turn from the usual set to get a chambered round.

Old boy that passed away left me some 223 rounds that had been fireformed, then bumped 2thou in a Howa. I have a Savage- these rounds would not chamber. Two different rifles, you not comparing apples with apples. My solution although some would say it's risky is --I have a redding body die, it doesn't touch the neck & shell holder is nowhere involved with pressure on the primer, so gently bumped the shoulder on a loaded case. Easy fix for if the shoulder is the problem.

Something I have run into is the case having to much up and down movement in the shell holder. Shell holder touches bottom of die and case movement is enough to stop shoulder being bumped back enough.

LEE lube...throw that tooth paste imitating case stuffing press jamming crap away as far as you can...NOW....RIGHT NOW not tomorrow do it now....
the amount of headaches caused by slighty incorrect use of it is unreal.....(this is the ONLY product made my LEE that I swear at rather than swear by) I know of many stuck cases and eve na ripped out die that could be linked to its use.....
garden variety vasoline is 1000 times easier to use and more reliable as are a multitude of other products
if you look in the thread I bumped you will see a photo of nosler manual discription of patial length resizing... the fact you have said you can turn 1/3 of a turn and then another 1/3 of a turn SUGGESTS you are at least 2/3rds of a turn loose from proper full length sizing contact...eg set your press up till die contacts shell holder then screw in a further turn...... yes this will make your brass as small as it can possibly be...but the buggers will chamber in 99% of cases...

Greetings again,
I am getting the impression the problem you are having is with loaded rounds and wonder if the problem is being created in the seating die. Here is a test for you.
1. Remove the decapping rod and neck expander for your FL die.
2. Wind the FL sizing die down until it touches the shell holder. Back the ram out and wind the die down one full turn further and lock the ring.
3. Full length size with the shell holder making hard contact with the die. You should feel the case shoulder contact the shoulder inside the die and after that the shell holder contacting the die.
4. Chamber the case in your rifle. It should fit.
If not either the die or the chamber is out of spec. If it does chamber then the problem is elsewhere.
Next we look at the seating die.
1. Place a case that is within spec for length in the shell holder with no die in the press and run the ram up the whole way. Put your seating die in the press with the locking ring backed out and carefully turn the die down until you feel the crimping shoulder touch the case.
2. Turn the die back out one full turn and lock the ring.
If the seating die crimp shoulder touches the case mouth this can bulge the case just behind the shoulder and make chambering hard.
You mentioned that your rifle is an M700 and I don't remember Remington ever chambering the 7mm WSM so if this is a replacement barrel the chamber could be quite tight. You mentioned that some rounds will not chamber in your friends rifle which tells me that somewhere in the loading process something is going pear shaped. Keep at it and you will get there.
Regards Grandpamac.

If none of that works try holding the case as high as it will go in the shell holder and slip a feeler guage under it so theres no up and down movement. Remove decapping rod and size.