shite for a moment there I couldve sworn you were talking about the mighty poohseventy!!!!
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@Tussock The small rifle primed Lapua brass is all I use in Creedmoor and any comparison I make in this thread is with that brass. Same brass, same bullet, same powder, same primer and same barrel length.. the x47 wins with 3.5gr less powder and 150fps advantage. Creedmoor load shows pressure and x47 does not. I need a finer granule RL16 to get more in there to find where the pressure signs start
so I had a quick look for powder you dreaming about....hard to suss out where eggzachary RL16 sits when its now shown on ADI chart but ASSUMING its between 15-and 19.... as the numbers keep going up as you get further down the chart....it might just be SIMILAR in burn rate to good old winchester 760....... food for thought,something to look into.as you would fit more in case....I KNOW you wont go blindly and will triple check everything just thought the obvious might have been missed (train of thought started with superpreformance for similar reasons,the more in case is why I use lilgun in x39mm) hope that makes sence???
Yeah super performance and 760 were in my sights..
Maybe even a blend of something lol
My 260 has 21 inch tube and 1:9 twist cause im happy with 120-130gn pills yes bc not great but i only comfortable shooting game to 350ish
Ill go for 1:8 or 1:8.5 6.5x47 on next barrel fits my short arse mag length and be able to play 130gn or higher pills this thread making my wallet nervous lol
@Tussock i run a Creedmoor with Lapua SP Brass, I'm only on about my 6th firing for the cases though.
And @Micky Duck I use W760.
Never chrono'ed the load but working backwards with a ballistic app it works out to about 2770 FPS for 139 grain Scenars
I don't use a bi-pod. I shoot off a backpack. As the guy who taught me to stop holding it said, "why bother, the projectile is long gone".
So tell me straight, same pressures same projectiles, same action, same 21” barrel will the x47 push past the x55?
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same pressure from same barrel it cant....pressure=push so if push is the same so must be velocity to have higher velocity from same barrel it MUST push it harder so would NEED higher pressure. speed of powder wont come into it as barrel is same........is is not????
I think if you look, Tiger woods does not hit a gold ball at 3000ft/sec. The key is to not move at all for a tiny fraction of a second, so I'm not sure what a follow through might look like? Muzzle flip happens after the projectile leaves the barrel, it is the feeling of the gas leaving the barrel. So your saying by physically trying to control something that happens after the projectile leaves the barrel, this helps you to move less during that fraction of a second?
What does a follow through on a rifle shot mean? Because a golf swing is a dynamic movement and an accurate shot is the absence of dynamic movement. If I throw a punch, as a boxer do I need to follow through? Only if I want to get punched in the head.
I do not think this is a universal rule.
Follow through is vital. A rifle moves about 1/16" before the projectile leaves the barrel. Can't avoid the laws of physics . . .
're velocity. A lot of the modern cartidge brass seem to be able to stand around 70,000 psi without showing the traditional signs of pressure. Possibly you'll get away with it in a modern action but if there's a manufacturing flaw or someone with an old mauser gets your ammo by mistake - look out!.
Leade design also plays an important part in velocities - a long leade is the same as seating out.
I was always taught to follow thru or dwell after the shot was broken with a rifle.
Pretty sure the projectile is still in the barrel during initial recoil impulse depending on a few things.
I don't have any accuracy issues if I do my part no matter how I shoot my rifles. Bipod, pack or any other traditional position. They all shoot within an acceptable POI inside say 500 yrds.
I only hold/support the front when shooting without a bipod.
It is a concrete marksmanship principle.
Shot must be released and followed thru with minimum disturbance to the rifle or shooters position.
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It may be a concrete principle, but I have seen vastly better shooting from people who don't bother. If people are shooting 5 shot round bug hole groups from field rests with no fore end control, what are you expecting to gain?
How is it vital if people are shooting extremely well without it?
These are two three shot groups at 1100m from my old Savage F-Class. This is about 6-12 months after I abandoned trying to control the fore-end. When I tried to control the fore-end, this is what my 100m groups look like.
Attachment 105916
I can only credit the people who taught me to shoot as before that I was hopeless, but those groups were shot leaning over the back deck of a flatdeck ute. Unless you can come up with a concrete reason, I will stick with being in awe of the concrete principles they taught me.
F-Class .22 by any chance?
Not questioning the laws of physics, but are you saying you grip the rifle and hold it to prevent that 1/16" movement?
I'm not over selling those groups. Clearly everything went right and I did bugger all (Crzyman did the load development) beyond lie down behind the rifle. It was a still day and we walked the round onto the target and shot groups because it was miles to the targets. Any forum member who has been to one of my LR shoots will recognize the target stands. Clearly everything went right.
My question is, if it is a concrete principle and if the laws of physics say you must control the fore-end and follow through (still not sure what this means), then how is this possible? How can everything go right (frequently) even off makeshift rests, if a critical part of marksmanship is being ignored?
You miss understood me. I am not saying it is critical to follow thru or hold the fore end. I rarely do either.
Totally agree with you on most parts.
Some people can break most of the principles and shoot awesomely. Just the way it is.
What I meant by concrete is that it is a principle of marksmanship.
I will also bet dollars to donuts you follow thru to an extent without realising it. [emoji16]
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Like I said, I don't know what you mean so I can't say one way or another. I want the cross hairs to come back to where they started, is this what you mean? Unless it is a field shot and I'm all twisted up. Realistically you should be able to shoot left handed lying on your back twisted round a tree stump and if you get the important stuff right, still get what you want.
I definitely want the rifle to recoil and return to the same point of aim, or at least field of view.
Should add that with 6.5x47 burning no more powder than it needs, I could self spot with my heavy hunting rifle at 100m on quite high magnification. A Sako stock and a heavy over barrel suppressor help. Little recoil.
Lets see if my new straight stocked sporter weight 7mm Rem Mag with its pencil thin barrel changes my tune. Could only get 175g factory loads locally:D
Yup. That's pretty much what a follow thru is. Watching the foresight or crosshair after the shot.
If position and everything else is right, your sight picture should return to where it started.
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Tussock I do believe you have answered your own......query ??? in the last two lines..... for sure you can get away with a hell of a lot with a light recoiling heavy rifle.... try it with something that has a bit of boot and the results could be vastly different....YES there are alot of people out there who can shoot very well off a bipod without forend support BUT you can bet your bottom $$$$ thier rifles were sighted in this way and they have taken a bit of time to get that bipod in as stable a position as possible...not always an option in field conditions...I cant deny that in its place it works...but Im buggered if I can see how with a rushed shot in less than ideal conditions it can..to use your own exzample "left handed on your back twisted around a tree stump" now tell me how you are going to get a bipod rested on flat surface to allow the" return to battery" that we are talking about when saying follow through????
Wow this thread has gone off topic :wtfsmilie:
Casual reminder this place started with a few specific gripes. One of which was the obsessive tendency to keep threads on topic. No one could ever explain to me what the point of this was. Someone will pop in and put it back on topic, or it will drift into the apocalyptic heap of abandoned threads in the background. Someone will start another 6.5x47L thread.
The idea of forums is discussion. The "KEEP THE THREAD ON TOPIC" people can be seen to kill/damp down discussion as a matter of routine. You want threads to go off topic and get as many pages total as possible.
Forums are killed by: policing content as if you are creating some important database of critical information
Forums a double killed by: people doing what @gimp is doing. Fatigued senior/long term member telling the new members not to bother doing what they did for the last decade.
You are up to you necks in Tussock. If you want a strict set of rules ask admin for them, but they seem to have stuck with our initial plans, with great success.
I was again taking the piss, not like I have never derailed a topic ;) Hell its my specialty
I'm not a beginner. I have owned and shit a few things, many of them hard booting. I don't mind, but I don't like the stock characteristics of this 7mm Rem Mag, I would usually avoid them. I'm going to leave it un-suppressed so I can maintain my ability to shoot uncomfortable things, not create it. Like I said, we will see how I go.
You seem to have missed the part where I said I DONT OWN A BIPOD!:D
While I actually have a box of them, I don't use them anymore. Getting the tension in the legs even on anything less than a perfect surface is a huge pain in the arse.
I also said that in the "left handed on your back twisted around a tree stump" I would expect the "return to battery". I said I would expect to make the shot, if I did all the other bits right.
What I am talking about is natural point of aim. I want the cross hairs to rest naturally on the target, while my body is completely relaxed and the only muscles with any tension at all are working the trigger.
As I understand it, you are trying to physically control the movement of the rifle under recoil. I would have liked to know if @Tentman intended to stop the 1/16" muzzle flip before the projectile left the barrel. If so, the laws of physics say he can't stop it completely. So can he reduce it. My question is, can he reduce it by exactly the same amount every time?
Guiding the rifle back to its starting point is one thing. Physically controlling the rifle to prevent it from moving to some degree is another.
How do you do this with no tension to be found anywhere in your body?
Tussock can I barrow that bipod of yours I hear it’s SPECIAL ;)
I can assure you Mr Tussock...I control my rifle perfectly "fine n dandy peas n carrots" without excess tension,Im not having a wrestling match with the plurry thing,mearly holding it firmly by the natural way rifles have been held since the beginning of there use...why else do we have a forend if not to hold onto....LOL.
I was interested in Wingmans journey with the 6.5x47 Lapua. But all this BS about proper rifle hold, bi-pods bla bla bla has stuffed what otherwise would have been a good thread.
I,m gone.
I find that when I use a pull through it creates a lot less friction when I apply oil or some type of lube. Lubes is best.
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