Maybe you should give some to @Gibo for when he is deep in @Tussock........... I think @Creeper might want in too...........
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This video will explain why, for anatomical reasons, you guys will talk a little shit on the forum, you will talk shit behind my back, but you will never say of this shit to my face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBA1jA2-mo
I'm away for a few months and this place becomes A high school ! Then every melodramatic prick ending his posts with "I'm out" as if anyone cares. Where were you in?
What a bunch of princesses. Its not just how you like it so time for a dummy spit. I guess you guys see two conversations happening in one thread and you get all confused and angry. Too hard to tell the different topics apart. I understand.
I wonder how many guys are lurking instead of posting because of the plague of territorial half men on here?
Honestly @Tussock I actually believe you have valid well informed opinions on hunting related techniques and quipment most of the time from what I have read. Let's get this straight, I don't know ya from a bar of soap but your the one who seems like a moaning little drama queen in this thread man, take a joke, take a hint and stop taking this shit so serious.
If your whole keyboard warrior facade is just a joke, well than its on me..
As for the cartridge in question, what a little rocket ship! Is anyone offering a factory rifle in that chambering?
Sent from my RNE-L22 using Tapatalk
Yip old tussock back at his old tricks........you love to wind everyone up then try and reverse the negative feedback. If only you had some post history to quote.....oh funny how your entire history here was wiped. Shaping up for the same treatment from what I see.
I hear ya, and I don't. I did delete my post history, that is correct. Three times now in total. About 20,000 posts over three forums. My content, not the forums as it turned out. See the color of my name? It is green, not blue. I was a terrible "caretaker" just like I was a shit mod on FnH.
I will yield the point about thread hijacks. I have been bitching about this since about 2005, because the most fun we ever had with the widest range of people getting along, and the best atmosphere, was back when we were posting virtually everything in the same place. The more guys we got who could not cope with this, the more tedious things got. No going back I guess. This forum was originally designed to replicate that and again it was super popular and again, a bunch of guys who can't cope with no rules turned up (because it was comfy) to tell us what we were doing was wrong. Like panel rust I guess. To avoid the hassle, I will just start more threads.
This is not complicated. There are a bunch of guys here who will insult anyone who drifts away from their approved way of being. You either think and act like them, or you get insulted. You get this "But all this BS about proper rifle hold, bi-pods bla bla bla" or you get "To much follow through from a couple of pull throughs".
A hell of a lot of guys will not post because they might cop this. The guys who are doing this are obviously big fish in whatever tiny pond they come from, that they think they are special and get to decide what is cool and what is not. Somehow they feel they can outright insult people with impunity. I agree with people ignoring this, it is just not my style. I'm not used to it frankly, this type of man literally crosses the street to avoid me in real life.
Years ago a bunch of guys who like to publicly hated me on the forum all stayed at my house, invited by another member. They were all very pleasant and we got on fine, because in person all this evaporates because they are acting. 24/7. The big talk evaporates in person. I have never had any trouble fronting up in person and talking exactly as I do here. Like anywhere, I will insist if you are to be insulting people and trying to dominate them, you start with me. I find it more peaceful this way.
Like anywhere, there are a bunch of people here I have the utmost respect for and who I would go on another expedition with without hesitation. Like anywhere, there is a ton of dead wood and useless flesh. This is why I like doing things that are hard. These fuckers will never turn up because there is no chance to try look cool by insulting people while doing nothing.
So fair is fair, I will cut the thread hijacks out. The guys with the insults and snide comments, I will continue to point out they are up to FA.
20,000 posts........ you don't have something better to do? don't know If I qualify as your "keyboard worrier" (spelling deliberate) type, cause I am guilty of hanging bait from time to time, but your post does make it sound that you believe you are an intimidating hard man that scares people across the road (your real name isn't Bad Bad Leroy Brown is it?) In real life, I can be a very difficult bastard, and I cross the road for no one, one or six, it just won't happen.
You really can't take what gets put on forums to heart, we are all different and have differing perception about everything, it really does sound like, it is actually you with the biggest problem, or you like to wear your Klingon cloaking device and go fishing, here.
Of course, my perception could be way off, it's a long way to see down from my own ivory castle you know.
(Stamps foot!) I'M OUTA HERE!!!! (flounces out the door)
This thread didn't need to be filled up with all this f...ing bullshit! Why didn't/don't you start your own thread on holding shit!
Any comments around factory offerings?
Because its an effing conversation... this effing paranoia about thread creep does not mirror real life. Real conversations ebb and flow and dicks who throw tantees about not remaining close to original subject get dealt with in real life. What a winaa - are you sure you aren't missing a couple of letters?
The irony appears completely lost on those who want to wank on about 270s and waikato beer in every friggin thread.. queuing up here to bitch about thread creep???
Unlike those dicks there might have been some value in a discussion about bipods and forend control... irrespective of the original post..
Develop some ability to communicate and skilfully turn the conversation back to where you would like it to go rather than stamping your little feet....
for pities sake...
For @deepsouthaussie to my knowledge there are no factory offerings unfortunately. Because a thread can come back on topic. It should be possible to get commercial handloads done for a similar price as ammo, or premium ammo (which it is better than). I never liked that I had to send my rifle off for this but it worked Ok. I got a very slow load that was extremely accurate the one time I tried it.
As for this whole thread, Sidney is right. Conversations wander. I can't picture someone at the pub sitting around a table telling people what they can talk about when, but then I don't go to the pub much. Have we not had this entire discussion before? Have I not been bollocked by mostly the exact same people in exactly the same way on another forum? And what happened? We set this up and you all left a place where every section has a mod enforcing these rules you like so much.
You guys followed everyone who was sick of you over here once you had completely dominated the discussion there, and thus killed it. You can go back. The mods are no doubt still there telling people where they are allowed to post.
@257weatherby I live in a small town where some people hang their heads and look around nervously because petty dominant types will pick on them. There are other people who are petty dominant like chickens, and they do all the pecking. They walk with their head up and they like to look people up and down. For whatever reason, the shy timid ones who get picked on find me approachable and the petty dominant ones seem to literally run away.
Just an observation.
All good, just tyre kicking anyway.. While I really like the Idea of a 6mm running high velocities with decent BC pills and low recoil, I think my next rifle is going magnum
I think I need to post a naval history comment to lighten the mood.
Seems a bit grim.
@Wingman, got any updates fella? Interested on how it's all behaving.
There's a guy selling factory chambered "Lynx" straight pull rifles on Trademe - and I've noticed the 6.5x47 is one of the chamberings available. Pricey, but they look like they could be a bit of fun.
Dam - what have I been missing here - "6.5x47 Lapua" so wasn't the slightest interested in "another" primer induced explosion
All the time it was about everything else other than by the looks - have I missed it or is still running hot
Shit guys I go away hunting for 4 days and you cant play nice and keep my thread on track?!
Actually I dont mind the secondary topic as it is quite relevant and an interesting topic. @Flyblown and I had quite a few conversations about this while we were in the field and we had some interesting related events which I will go into more about later.
The 6.5 Lapua got a fair work out and lots of testing and I am more than excited about the results.
We have a heap of pics and video footage which we will share in due time.
Just got home and need to clean the gear and process some meat.
sorry to all and sundry for getting off track.....as for moderating it...well on yet another forum what we do is split off the off topic bit at moderator lever and chuck it back up as a seperate thread......doesnt happen often LOL keep the photos etc coming Wingman.
People clearly just got over excited by the x47
I wonder if any of those who don't want us to discuss muzzle flip and recoil after the projectile has left the barrel are aware for a round that sends 140g at serious speeds there is virtually none of either?
As in I don't thing there is a round that boots less for the ammont of downrange oomph.
Recoil is quoted as a linear relationship to muzzle energy, but muzzle energy is divided between the projectile and the venting gas. The projectile and the venting gas have a different effect on felt recoil. Recoil is an equation with muzzle energy in it. Felt recoil is what transfers to the shoulder.
Take a rifle and shoot it with a 26" barrel and then shoot it with a 10" barrel. Minus the difference in friction down the barrel, the muzzle energy is the same. See if they both feel the same to shoot. At 26" the energy is in the projectiles motion, and at 16" the gas discharge. At 16" some of the energy is probably in a huge fire ball of un-burned powder. Try a muzzle brake. The muzzle brake does not direct the projectile out sideways.
A linear relationship between felt recoil and muzzle energy is an oversimplification. It comes down to efficiency. How much from the energy from the powder (the only source) can be transferred to the projectile. I personally think the projectile moves the gun very little compared to the high pressure gas at the muzzle and the diameter of the hole the gas vents out of. I think nothing makes more efficient use of the powder in a 20" barrel (or there abouts) than a 6.5x47L. I think Lapua planned that. It is not a consideration in most rounds.
Be curious to know how many people have actually shot 6.5x47
@Tussock
I want single shot accuracy, up to 3 rounds. I don't actually care as much about groups as I do how much a single shot from a cold barrel deviates from the point of aim.
Well said, the importance of this is often overlooked.
Righto, hopefully this short vid touches on the fore mentioned questions of rifle hold/control, 6.5x47 Lapua's recoil and ergonomics of the Desert Tech's bolt configuration.
This was a quick check of my 130gr TMK load's ballistics correlation with my chrono and strelok. @Flyblown was spotting, I was shooting a rock at 497 meters (544 yards).
http://youtu.be/6WDBrHuLoq4
Following this test we moved out to 1012 meters and put this 5 shot group on a rock after a couple of sighters.
https://i.ibb.co/TmgzRxw/20190226-181058.jpg
The following morning we put a paper target next to the rock to try and get a a better group. Unfortunately there was an ugly gusty wind and we couldnt see the hits so I only got one of 5 shots on the paper (4x A4 pages) you cabn see the hole on the R/H lateral line and the rest drifted off the paper to the right.
https://i.ibb.co/LRxZcrW/20190227-154918.jpg
How did it go on the deer?
It went very well.. took some longer range goats too. 200 to 600 meter shots all were instant drop on the spots apart from one goat that I hit a little far back at 330 meters and required a follow up shot.
The Sierra tipped match king although a little lower in BC than some of the other 130gr range available it has been absolutely dependable on all game. All bang flops.. nothing walked.
I did have one anomaly on a fellow at 200 meters that stepped forward as I shot. The bullet hit a little far back behind the shoulder turning the liver to pulp and passing through the front of the rumen which must have acted like a thick ballistic gel because the bullet didnt exit. I punched through a rib on the exit side but stopped under the skin.
A 100% energy dump that dropped the fallow on the spot and caused some very interesting internal trauma that I have not seen before with this bullet.
The norm with the TMK is a pass through with great expansion and wound channel with an exit wound of about an inch. Very little to no meet damage on most accounts if placement is right.
https://i.ibb.co/7SY5BTr/20190225-174109.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/BymtPSb/20190225-183035.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ZVY5z7D/20190225-192559.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/hHrcgYY/20190225-192612.jpg
Is that a grip pod? Do you rate them.? I saw one on Ali express for 20 bucks that I thought would be worth trying. I'd need an M lok adaptor though
No its an Atlas bipod
Good stuff. Nothing I shot with mine went far. Love those 6.5/140s.
Regarding recoil, can anyone answer the following question and not just guess or speculate on the answer: If two rifles of identical weight and effective barrel length ahead of the chamber, one a 6.5 06 and the other a 6.5 saum are loaded with identical powder charges and projectiles the 6.5 saum will achieve a higher muzzle velocity. Q Is there any difference in recoil ??
Purely in terms of practical physics, as I think gas discharge creates more thrust into your shoulder (by working exactly like a thruster) then the saum would have to have less recoil, as in order to get higher velocity, all else being equal, it needs to make better use of the powder charge.
In other words, more efficiency means more energy transferred to the motion of projectile and less to the rifle.
I havent gone into my load development much on this thread and that was for a couple of reasons, the first being that I was rushing to get this barrel finished for this hunting trip and the other reason being that it seems to shoot everything I have run through it.
I have lots of various 6.5mm bullets to test if any of you guys are interested to see that process but Im pretty decided on the 130gr TMK as my hunting load as it has done all I have asked of it in this rifle and my Creedmoor.
I have also loaded 100x 123gr A-Max which also shoot surprisingly well, the BC is .510 which is almost that of the 130gr TMK at .518.
I picked up 500 of the A-Max's at $50 per 100x for the Grendel so they will be put to good use. Its a pity they were discontinued only to be re introduced with a fancy new name (123gr, 130gr and 140gr ELDM) with a $35-$40 price hike of course, nice one Hornady!'
Both of the TMK and A-Max loads shoot sub .4" at 100 yards between 2900fps and 3100fps so I just dropped back to 3000fps for the 123gr A-Max with 2208 which gives no pressure signs and 2950fps for the 130gr TMK with RL16 to combat a compressed load situation which cause ES to open up and made it a pain to seat bullets consistently.
When I get a bit of time and suitable weather Ill test the other bullets I have on hand, the 143gr ELDX further (only did a ladder test), the 130gr ELDM, the 130gr Berger VLD hunter the Lapua 123gr, 136gr L and 139gr Scenar bullets.
I will test some other powders too, BM8208 showed great speed (3000fps) and ES with the 123gr Amax so Ill have to put that on paper.
W760 and Hodgdon super performance also might be an interesting experiment along with RL17.
https://i.ibb.co/MZqZv0v/20190202-203451.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/G3Ph3sV/20190214-091702.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/4pc3LR7/20190214-110044.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/8KwbgGL/20190217-162953.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/kXCx1t4/20190217-164044.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/3h4WKXg/20190217-193600.jpg
A big thanks to Robert at Workshop Innovations for the gentle nudge away from the Harrells bench rest powder thrower and supplying my new RCBS Loadmaster light automated powder measure.. it has been great! Yet to throw and heavy or light charges! It has been spot on every time.
https://i.ibb.co/zRjhtRW/Untitled-2.jpg
I am no expert on this subject and that is why I asked the question. I think that your answer is probably very close to the truth Tussock. Some formula would suggest that we divide the foot pounds of projectile energy into the weight of the stock to get recoil energy, this would suggest that blanks create no recoil, which is not true. Other formula take the weight of the propellant and divide that into rifle weight.
What happens to recoil if we fire two bullets from a 308, one at 130 gr and one at 150gr both with the same 40 gr charge of 2209 - is there a difference in recoil ???
The only real question here is why would anyone use 2209 in a .308? ;)
the 150grn load WILL recoil more and pressure will be higher,you are shifting a heavier payload....back to that Newton fella again..equal and opposite and all that....oops sshhh we sidetracked AGAIN.... BEETER REPHRASE QUESTION to be a 6x47 case???
Newton said for every action there would be an equal and opposite reaction. He did not specify what the reaction would be. In the case of gun powder turning into gas, stuff will move. The projectile will move, the barrel will get hot (atoms moving), the projectile will get hot, the gas will move and the rifle will move.
So in this case, the rifle will go backwards (recoil) but it is a reaction to several things. So you can't back calculate from the projectile energy because it is not the only variable.
It is a very good question this 150g vs 130g for equal powder. You say you are shifting a heavier payload, but the payload is moving slower. So recoil should be equal.
What about case pressure and its effect on powder burn? The 2209 will be burning at higher pressure. Does a powders burn rate change as the chamber pressure during the burn varies?
GENERALLY a hgiher projectile weight requires a lower powder weight somewhere around 2 grns powder for 10 grns projectile..so the 150 grn load will be a way hotter load than the 130..so it has TWO differences,or to flip it around the 150grn load so so and the 130 a piss weak/mild one.