Thread: Substituting projectiles

People are making this sound really complicated. Its not. Pull the bullets, set up your die for neck sizing, take the decapping pin out or the expander completely) neck size them all. Take an average of the weight of the powder and then put it all back again, and then seat the new bullets.

Its very simple. And really, none of the things people are talking about above are going to happen. You'r not going to be over pressure. You're cases are not going to grow at all (you're neck sizing)
It's going to be fine.

Originally Posted by PeteD

I must admit I had neglected to neck size rounds I have done this to.
Am I correct in thinking that if I was to remove the deprimer in a standard lee die then it would only neck size?

No. You have t back the die out until it jsut engages the neck fo the casee, not the shoulder. Wind the die out a bit, and make a mark on a case with a felt tip, (or just put some lube on the neck) and run it into the die, you should be able to see where the die has sized part of teh neck a bit. Lower it until you are sizing the whole neck, but not more.
You can keep the expander and decapping pin in, normally, to deprime the case, but this guys purpses he wants to neck size cases that are already primed, so he needs to take it out.

Originally Posted by Three O'Three

This is all very interesting. I've got some greek 303 ammo which may too hot and have been contemplating pulling the bullets, dumping a few grain of powder then reseating bullets.

Why do you think Greek military .303 would be too hot?

Lee f/l dies are not neck sizing dies if you remove the rod they will outside diameter the neck in a very aggressive manner . This is to accommodate brass of all thicknesses , the final neck sizing is done by the expander ball as it is drawn back through the neck . If the OP were using a bushing die then things may be different.
The cases may grow if the die sizes the body without engaging the case shoulder , not will , may . So just in case , how difficult is it to check a case or two will chamber .
The ideal would be to use a Lee Collet neck sizing die with the decapping rod lifted up out of the way . The rod itself works as a mandrel to help keep the neck concentric.
Personally, I'd air on the side of caution . The propellant is unknown and changing bullets even to one of the same weight may change the internal pressures, especially if the bullet is longer then seated to the same c.o.l , as you may be reducing case capacity . I strongly suspect mil'spec fmj's will be considerably shorter than modern hunting bullets, with their boat tail and polymer tips .
Anyway , it's entirely up to the OP how he proceeds and whose advice he takes .
I'm done on the subject.

As someone who had never even heard of doing it three posts back, you have some strong opinions on how it wont work. Rest easy. It works fine. Listen to some people who have actually done it, and then you dont have to wonder. We can be your guides in this matter. People started doing this in the sixties with .303 ammo.

And I said remove the decapping pin, not the expander.

Originally Posted by JohnDuxbury

As someone who had never even heard of doing it three posts back, you have some strong opinions on how it wont work. Rest easy. It works fine. Listen to some people who have actually done it, and then you dont have to wonder. We can be your guides in this matter. People started doing this in the sixties with .303 ammo.

And I said remove the decapping pin, not the expander.

Not really strong opinions , I'm just cautious by nature when it comes to reloading . Especially when there is an unknown, such as propellant and pressures and the SST is a long bullet , that extra length has to go somewhere.
My previous suggestions of doing some form of load development is a combination of me being cautious and wanting to see the best results in the way of accuracy and consistency . The principles of reloading apply irrespective of chambering.

Yes you are correct , this process of pulling mil' spac' ammo and replacing the bullets is an alien concept to me , does that make me wrong to be want the OP to remain safe, perhaps its an English .thing. I'm sure a lot of people have done this without any problems .

I've reread the thread , I'm not sure where I got the idea the OP was using Lee dies , regardless the decapping pin is fixed in a Lee and if using something like the Hornady new dimensions dies , it may well engage the case body before sizing the neck . Given the mechanics of how a f/l die works it is possible for the cases to lengthen, though unlikely in unfired brass . Why am I wrong to suggest checking the cases still chamber , it's a few seconds that might save hours further on?

I never have a problem with being wrong , I often am and will openly admit to it if that's the case . . Me , I'm making suggestions that will hopefully help achieve a better end result and keep the OP safe and it is never wrong to promote safety. Try not to judge me too harshly , my posts are written with good intentions 

Regards

I should never be allowed to post after a 15 hour day .

Can the OP do as @JohnDuxbury has suggested ? Remove the decapping pin or lift the rod high enough not to deprime. Then , providing his f/l die is already set for his rifle simply f/l size , taking care not to get lube of any sort inside the case . It may contaminate the primer . Assuming he doesn't possess a neck die , that is .

See , I'm never afraid to backpedal ��

a full length die DOES NOT AND NEVER HAS enguaged body before it enguages the neck...case is tapered,only slightly but they are tapered, partial length resize has been done for ever.. only some of the neck is shrunk and the body of case has stuff all as that last bit of downward squeze isnt used.

Been following this for a while in the 90s early 2000 up to 2019 I have pulled 1000 approx .min x nzdf men86 projs and replaced with 135 lapua megas no resizing etc using a collet puller just swapping projs not even crimping etc and running through slrs g3s ar10 rem pigs etc saigas m14 and no problems what so ever not to mention numerous b/actions ( yes Im a gun slut) the men 86 was the most accurate ammo for price I ever had ,always sub moa with the megas and great in older worn barrels been a flat base . Used them as a base test round on new guns rather than buy factory ammo . Did not work on the Singaporean / s African or fed red box for accuracy
My words of exp are go down in bullet weight and just check for pressure etc and hope those megas come but at a fare price .

FFS. As posted before, I have done this hundreds of times with various military rounds. Simply remove fmj and replace with same or lights bullet weight then go hunting. Never bothered resizing neck, never been a problem. Like m101a1 I’ve used through semis and bolt actions. Done it for probably 40 years.

I've done the pull & replace a few times in the past & all worked well. I also prime with large pistol primers in the 7.62x54R steel cases when rifle primers are scarce & they still work fine @ the ranges I generally kill things. No problems with dangerous pressures or lack of performance. I've been reloading since the early 70s & still have all my parts.....a little older..yes, but still here. (Yma o hyd)

Some basic .308 knowledge helps too: The .308 Winchester is loaded to much higher pressures than the NATO 7.62.

Originally Posted by PipIstrelle

I should never be allowed to post after a 15 hour day .

Can the OP do as @JohnDuxbury has suggested ? Remove the decapping pin or lift the rod high enough not to deprime. Then , providing his f/l die is already set for his rifle simply f/l size , taking care not to get lube of any sort inside the case . It may contaminate the primer . Assuming he doesn't possess a neck die , that is .

See , I'm never afraid to backpedal ��

Piplstrelle, have you not heard of neck sizing with a full length die before? Its very simple to do and works perfectly.

Difference is effectively about 4000psi. Interesting thing is MEN ammo cycles old M100 action too fast, rips extractor over rim leaving case in chamber. Case still falls out when bolt cycled manually. No problem with commercial ammo. Irrelevant though since we had semi’s taken off us.

Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

I've done the pull & replace a few times in the past & all worked well. I also prime with large pistol primers in the 7.62x54R steel cases when rifle primers are scarce & they still work fine @ the ranges I generally kill things. No problems with dangerous pressures or lack of performance. I've been reloading since the early 70s & still have all my parts.....a little older..yes, but still here. (Yma o hyd)

interesting you say that...I reload .44magnum for a chap and wondered if could use the large pistol primers instead of my dwindling supply of large rifle.