I use Range Buddy on android. It is a free app. Ive used it for 4years. It accurately measures mean radius in mrad also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground Control
Attachment 274347
Printable View
I use Range Buddy on android. It is a free app. Ive used it for 4years. It accurately measures mean radius in mrad also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ground Control
Attachment 274347
I ended up finding sub moa free on IPhone seems alright no tutorials like ballistic X so takes a little figuring out ballistic X wanted a subscription to measure mean radius I was about to get hornday for $10-$11 dollars then read the above so looked for a free IPhone version seems to work wellAttachment 274364
@Kelton
Yep thats the identical app but for iPhone.
Father in-laws 308.
168gr ELDM and 2208
Grabbed 15 pieces brass and 15 pills off another forum member.
Loaded up 7 at one grain below max and 8 at max to fit the mag.
3 random factory rounds to get roughly zeroed (fluked decent zero)
Shot first 7
Attachment 274402
No pressure.
Started shooting max
Attachment 274403
Hit a bit of pressure. Stopped shooting, no point shooting the remaining 2 rounds
Job done. Hunting time
Easy huh
Note for using mean radius it's pretty much meaningless (like group size) until you have at least 10 shots of data or moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Roarless20
Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Shouldn’t have even bothered with max really. It’s a sub 300 rifle. Would’ve been a 7 shot load development. Plus 3 factory rounds.
I am hoping to do the same thing with the 52gn Hammers I have loaded for the 223rem. Fired 3 rounds to check mv and look for pressure signs and settled on a charge. I will now go and zero it. With a little luck I should be ready to hunt after 10 rounds. That will leave me 5 loaded for killing stuff.
I look forward to the results. If you need more I'm thinking of getting some more Hammers in a few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
Thanks. I will see how they go and let you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
With a good rifle, for conventional hunting purposes, the zero-round load development is a real option
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelton
Cheers :thumbsup:
I got it today and I must admit that it took a bit of working out ( I’m not exactly the sharpest spoon when it comes to technology) .
I realise now looking at this older target that I was experimenting with that I don’t have the fields set correctly because it was set at 91m not 100m that the true distance was .
Anyway this is a 12 shot group ( 4 x 3 shots to let barrel cool ) that I shot last year as my final zero check before going Chital Deer hunting in North Queensland.
Now that I’ve got this app I’ll show the results of my next session with the Sierra 130 TMK’s when I get the chance next weekend.
https://i.imgur.com/R2Llb8E.jpg
Done more range shooting in the last two weeks than I have in The last two years, been good getting back into it even though the results aren't always the best, shots felt OK but I'm pretty rusty so hopefully improve with more practice
Tried some 108gr eldm out of the 6mm creedmoor, 2209 after working a ladder upto max to check for pressure loaded 10 at 1gr below max. Not the best but it is what it is. (Shots are not in order listed)
Attachment 274579
Your results mirror a lot of mine over the last two-three years and several rifles. May I ask what is the weight of your rifle? I'm wondering if I accidentally sold a couple of lightish rifles that were possibly "more accurate than me" and due to poor technique I never found what they were capable of . . . I have a few doubts about @gimp s "cut rifled premium quality" barrel theory as two of the most accurate rifles I've had over the years were button rifled. However both the best shooters currently on the rack are of the Gimp preference though!Quote:
Originally Posted by c-dog
4150 grams all up woth supressor scope etc, it's a Criterion prefit. I don't think it had done much work as it was second hand, but I will never know as I dont have a bore scope. I will keep playing around with it as it doesn't owe me a he'll of a lot but I would like to take it down to sparrohawk at some stage for a bit of testing further out so hopefully get it going a bit better, I'm pretty sure my technique could do with some work so that's why I haven't been too worried about sending a few components down range (practice)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
Hmmm , it should be pretty forgiving at 4 + kgs but . . . . I'm learning all the time (and I do a lot of shooting at the range) and refining techniques/equipment (none of mine is flash, I like spending my $$ on rifles rather that accessories like bipods etc.). Recently I've been focusing on the shoulder end of the rifle, things like bag firmness, how the rifle fits on my shoulder and how much tension is in my right hand . . . All the vary POI.
The cut barrel thing. My experience with a sample of one (S&L) is that it shoots everything well, while the many button barrels I have mostly shoot something well but not everything.
So do you have some type of camera in front of yr target to give you all the data readings.Sorry I've been in the hills to long.Quote:
Originally Posted by c-dog
It done in a phone app, you take a photo of the target and mark the shots etc on it using the app.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trout
I've got a few things I would like to try but probably not back to the range for a couple of weeks. Will report backQuote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
Cheer Tentman,bit different to my little steel ruler.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
So I've not done much reloading for the last year or so, as both my current hunting rifles shoot factory fine, however I've shot through most of my ammo, and have heaps of components so dusted off the reloading gear and went about developing a load for both rifles.
Original plan was to do the usual powder workup however during a bit of interneting I got on to this new stats based approach and ended up at this thread.
My prc is a very precise rifle with factory but I had previously been chasing my tail with seating depths etc on the berger 140 vlds (supposed to be very depth sensitive) as they were showing apparent horizontal stringing. Probably allready shot at least 50 rounds in 4 or 5 shot groups trying to dial it in with less than what I would consider acceptable results for a custom rifle of this potential, average groups around 1.25 moa.
After reading through this thread I thought what have i got to lose, and rather than do more depth testing on this, I'll try the modern method and twiddle the big dial by changing powder. Switched to h1000 a grain under max, and loaded 20 rounds to mag length (so back where I started).
First 10 shots went into like .6, with an 11fps sd (first target), velocity maybe slightly slow @ 2500fps but in reality totally fine for my intended use of sub 500m.
Adjusted zero and sent 5 more to confirm (second target) combined sd across the 15 still 11 fps
Took data, ran a quick ballistic profile and sent a further 3 into less tham moa at 300m. Happy days, data confirmed, hunting load sorted in 18 shots. Really didn't need to confirm zero either so whole thing could have been sorted in 13 shots.
Bonus pic of the little 16.5 inch kimber shooting 5 into less than an inch as per. 130 Eldms at 2650, grain below book max as above. Shot 2 almost identical groups.
Honestly really refreshing to be able to just throw out most of the usual variables and focus on shooting.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4c71888e18.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d8b0cf1d17.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...84a8669548.jpg
Sent from my SM-S926B using Tapatalk
After picking up a 6 creedmoor true-flight kimber barrel of the forum recently I had it fitted and made it down to the range to test it out. I loaded up 13 rounds to get it sighted in and do a ten shot group at a max book charge of 2209 with lapua brass ccibr4 and 108 eldm.
Attachment 275949
So is that a node or what?
Nice group by the way.
Haha yeah looks to be a “node”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Friwi
It’s quite interesting how these groups start to fill in. I’ve shot quite a few now with different rifles, sometimes you get three through the same hole and then they start to scatter around a bit, other times they’re scattered and then start to fill in at the centre. For practical purposes most of the groups I’ve shot are fine but if I’d only fired three shots in the past and it wasn’t up to scratch I would have moved on to a different seating depth/powder charge etc etc and think if I’d fired a few more shots I would have saved a few trips to the range.
What's the 1 shot off to the left behind the stats window?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj
Good spotting I wondered if someone would see that ��. That was shot number two through the barrel after having it fitted. I didn’t initially see that when I was doing the shots as it was behind the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Seems like a fairly significant outlier, don’t statistians normally use the median in those situations rather than the mean?
It's an outlier in that sample, however can the sample be expected to reasonably represent the population?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benj
Your mean radius from the 10 shots measured is 0.19 inches - the expected 95% diameter around MPOI should be 4.16x0.19 = 0.79 Inches
Your mean radius would be a little larger if that shot included.
It's probably inside the 100% expected diameter? Just happened to get one from the far right hand tail
Yes I agree. Adding that shot on doesn’t change mean radius by much. I had just missed it!Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Either way it looks like you've got excellent precision for any practical use.
Mate runs factory ammo out of an A Bolt. Same projectile but as a reload [with BM2] runs 100fps [via new Garmin chrono] and much tighter. Barrel has now had a few rounds through it. First 3 on cold barrel very tight but second 2 start to show fliers. Aim is to use a similar projectile [albeit] 1gr lighter but same powder using same base then 1/2 grain increase to a full grain maximum over 3 seperate groups. Question is whether barrel will react in a ladder whilst it is still coldish [3 shots].
I have yet to see a barrel where shots actually walk due to heat in a 10 round group. Maybe they exist. What I have seen is that the "fliers" just fill out the true precision, and people don't like to see it.
Ran a simple load selection process again the other day, 108 berger elite hunters in the 6gt. Alpha brass cci 450. 37.6gr 2209 expecting about 2750fps, seated 0.050" off the lands
2744fps and 0.059mrad mean radius. 10rd group 0.7moa or something. Can I really improve on that with "tuning" for an 8lb shoulder fired rifle? Do I just happen to keep accidentally testing the "good load" at "the node" with my arbitrary selections? It seems unlikely.
Attachment 277647
I used range buddy to check measure some dodgy chino scope rings i found on aliexpress. Funny how they never declare the height under the ring down to top or rail...Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarless20
BUT using the photo scale feature on range buddy I was able to get within .5mm of what it turned out to be (8mm)
[MacGyver music required here]
Attachment 277652
Having trouble trying to get impact dots on app to target???.Have got measure points and point of aim.HornadyQuote:
Originally Posted by gimp
Another example. Jased81's tikka7mm08. Case full of 8208, 162 ELDM, seated somewhere. Load 10, shoot it, it works velocity in the right zone. Development done. 1.25moa 10rd group.
Attachment 278933
I thought I would try @gimp 10 shot group so took my sakos to the range today these are 10 shot groups shot off a bipod with a small rear bag and no forward hold.
Sako 85 carbon light.223 19.29mm
Sako 85 carbon light 6.5 creedmore 20.14mm
Still working on my 85 rem mag and that does have ejection issues where the cases hit the scope and fall back into the chamber.
Will be calling Beretta tomorrow https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f21588e48c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d8a5d5ef37.jpg
Sent from my CPH2531 using Tapatalk
Good shooting!Quote:
Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP
Good precision! Give the alternative simple load development approach a go next time...Quote:
Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP
For hunting rifles I load one round of 0.5gn increments upto max or even a gn or so over
I shoot those with the sole purpose of finding pressure signs
(essentially my personal max)
After that i decide on the maximum safe in my rifle
Load a batch and go hunting
Target rifles require a little bit more fucking about as you are trying to get the most possible
But for a hunting rifle I don’t give a fuck if it shoots 0.1moa or 1moa it really makes zero difference
And to be honest if a modern accurate hunting rifle (tikka for example) can’t shoot 1moa with that method then you would probably get more from changing your projectile and or powder choice than fiddling around for hundreds of rounds
@gimp is right for sure but it might have been more beneficial to prove the point to spilt your 20 round groups into 4 separate 5 round groups and then share the average mean radius
It just would’ve made more sense to people who didn’t really understand what you are trying to prove
