Thread: Thank you - First Handloads

Originally Posted by Hg1990

Is that even with the higher ES numbers? Whilst those two loads are producing a flat spot it is the average of 5 shots, would the loads that are producing lower ES not produce more consistent velocity and therefore better groups/ more consistent at distance?

This is how I understand it: It depends on the use case. As the pressure varies (temperature, case volume, barrel fowling, etc.) the flat spot will group around the same point of impact (poi) because the average is the same. However with the tighter SD the poi will shift however the group will be tighter. There is also the question of what the barrel harmonics are doing at those points.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @Hg1990,
You are on your way on your handloading journey. You have already learnt that 5 shot groups beat 3 shot groups in predicting precision. Yes I realise that you have not shot on paper yet but you have noted the low ES and stable velocity around that 43 grain charge level. I would not get too excited about the appearance of your primers. There are just too many things that produce primers that look like that that are not high pressure. I would be more interested that your velocity is in line with the minimal tested load data I have been able to find. Allowing for your barrel length your pressures are a little under max. Further there are no ejector stamps or swipe marks that would indicate excessive pressure.
You will find your own way in your handloading selecting methods that work for you. These will change as you move along and gain experience. I still learn something new often after close to 50 years loading my own. Enjoy the journey.
Regards Grandpamac.

Thanks so much for the message, greatly appreciate the advice and guidance. So great to have the forum to learn from everyone

Originally Posted by Magnetite

This is how I understand it: It depends on the use case. As the pressure varies (temperature, case volume, barrel fowling, etc.) the flat spot will group around the same point of impact (poi) because the average is the same. However with the tighter SD the poi will shift however the group will be tighter. There is also the question of what the barrel harmonics are doing at those points.

Ahhh so the stable averages will lead to stable POI, whereas the low ES will lead to consistent small groups that may potentially have a POI change with changes in conditions?

I’m hoping the seating depth test will lead to optimizing the barrel harmonics?

Originally Posted by Hg1990

Ahhh so the stable averages will lead to stable POI, whereas the low ES will lead to consistent small groups that may potentially have a POI change with changes in conditions?

I’m hoping the seating depth test will lead to optimizing the barrel harmonics?

That's the theory, I may be wrong.

Seating depth will optimize the harmonics. However I don't know If starting at a bad or good place will get you to the the same point. Or to put it another way do all roads lead to Rome?

Originally Posted by Magnetite

That's the theory, I may be wrong.

Seating depth will optimize the harmonics. However I don't know If starting at a bad or good place will get you to the the same point. Or to put it another way do all roads lead to Rome?

Erik Cortina says seating depth can tune any load, but I guess not all tuned loads will be “Rome”. Big ES and inconsistent velocity can be tuned with seating depth but that may just make a big group slightly less big, and perhaps getting all the parts optimal means best possible results? Looking forward to finding out!

In my experience hornady brass needs a good check on your primer pockets.
A uniformer can cost as little as $30 and its good to know that none of the primers
Should sit proud after that (assuming that's the reason for your marks)

Another Update - finalised charge weight and first seating depth tests done!

Went ahead and tested velocity at 43.0gr & 43.1gr to confirm that it was a stable spot for my charge weight, results were

42.9gr - Avg 2695f/s - ES 14 (previous best load)
43.0gr - Avg 2694f/s - ES 23
43.1gr - Avg 2697f/s - ES 49

So looks to be a nice stable spot with speeds holding at just under 2700f/s and my best ES at 42.9gr - this is what I chose as my powder charge going forward


For the seating depth test I started at mag length and worked back in .003” increments for a total of 7 three shot groups. All groups shot at 100m off a pack in prone (no bipod). All measurements were done with the “Ballistic-X” app with a 22mm pastie as the targets/reference measurement.

Seating Depth Test
2.175 - .456MOA / 1.327cm
2.172 - 1.158MOA / 3.368cm
2.169 - .762MOA / 2.217cm
2.166 - 1.022MOA / 2.972cm
2.163 - .905MOA / 2.632cm
2.160 - .996MOA / 2.896cm
2.157 - .449MOA / 1.307cm

Best Group



Looks like at max mag length is the end of one node whilst my lowest depth of 2.157” is into another. Wish I’d gone another few depths to find the end of that node, that will be my next outing where I’ll see if 2.154/2.150” produce another similar sub 1/2MOA group as that’s where I’ll want to load at (consecutive small groups where the group size is stable).

Stoked I should hopefully be able to get onto a sub 1/2 MOA load!

Finalised my load for now, completed the last few seating depth tests and then shot multiple groups at 100m & 200m of my confirmed load.
Tests done in same conditions (Shooting off pack at 100m)

Last Seating Depth Tests (2.157 best previous @ .449 MOA)
2.154 - .457 MOA
2.151 - .511 MOA
2.148 - .835 MOA

Given the groups started to open up again called it done with my seating depth node being 2.151 - 2.157. Therefore chose 2.156 as my final seating depth and today took a crack at a few groups, stoked with the results!

100m Groups

First two shots through the exact same hole


First time shooting a .3 group


200m Group

Think I could’ve shot better but still under 1/2 MOA


Looking to keep fine tuning the process, also have a batch of new Peterson brass to test out at some point as it should be a lot more consistent than my Hornady brass

Final Load
Hornady 135gr ATip Match Bullet
42.9gr Reloder 16
CCI 200 LRP
Hornady Brass
Seating Depth 2.156”