have you tried one backwards yet?????? that would take up a bit more case room but give you big flat metplate and a super duper boattail lol.
Printable View
have you tried one backwards yet?????? that would take up a bit more case room but give you big flat metplate and a super duper boattail lol.
cheers Micky . . . nodoubt it would leave a mark on anything it hit but its not something i would run thru a leveraction going for longer range, at this stage anyway, i will keep it tucked away tho . . . R
a good day on the hill, a dozen shot . . no Deer seen but pushing the range out a little further . . so making progress
Attachment 76022
So what was the mid range trajectory on that goat wearing the kneepads.
man that looks like sooo much fun,would be great to do same with my x39mm with subs.
a bit over 2 feet . . .
Attachment 76115
Nice going mate, might have to try again with my guide gun but, could never get the projectiles to stabilize at subsonic speeds.
How quiet is it with the suppressor? I wasn't that impressed with mine. The .308 is much more quieter, mind you it's a smaller projectile...
And how many grains of Trail Boss did you use with the Hornady 350s?
Cheers
i would have to say @craigc i am pleased with the DPT suppressors performance . . . starting out it was an unknown how much louder a sub .45 would be, the internet vids werent really helpful, certainly expected it to be more than a .30 caliber but thats all i knew.
my velocity is low at 975fps so that will help, also lead needs less powder than jacketed bullets . . . also ordered an extra 3 baffles which did make a big difference, made the setup longer but i can live with that.
keeping in mind the performance gain over the .30s with lead bullets its been a good move, so far it tips them over every time at any range i have tried.
having the knowledge that the bullets will go the whole length of an animal at any angle, that it will smash thru anything in its path builds confidence in the setup . . . thats a good feeling when its time to pull the trigger.
didn't do any more with the 350s . . . first groups didnt look hopeful so that was the end of that.
whats your experience with the .45s been like so far ? a picture of your setup would be cool.
last animal taken .. .
Attachment 78157
Any update on this thread? Sounds interesting.....
not much to add @Rich007 . . pics from last outing in March
longest shot of a dozen Goats taken
Attachment 86174
Fallow, standing shot at roughly 90 yards, uphill angle . . . ran for 25 yards which was a surprise, usually they drop on the spot
Attachment 86175
Attachment 86176
still some fine tuning to do with the setup but its good enough to get the job done so i have been slack and gone onto other projects . . . trigger job is at the top of the list and some work on the forend, talked to @gundoc about it so its in the near future
awesome thread!
Some great info here. I am looking for some 450 grain Hollowpoints in a soft lead that will perform like a giant 22 sub for a new project. Have you got anything like that ??
In my 44 mag Rossi I have been running 300 grn XTP Hornadys but they are a bit hard and don't mushroom.
A nice wad cutter type like what I accidently made, its a paper patch bullet, 420gr and on cardboard backing targets it cuts a neat round hole. Haven`t tried it on anything furry yet but think it would get the job done.
Attachment 87152,
Attachment 87153
New project is a Stirling Single Shot shotgun action - if you remember the ones with the pin hinge that fold in half. Anyway it has a 458 cal barrel tube on it now with a 1 in 16 twist. it is chambered in a shortened version of 45/70. So with a folding stock, should fit into a 40cm bag when trout fishing as a backup to the landing net. Currently modifying it to external hammer with manual cocking.
Have you looked at Outlaw State Projectiles ?.
Reason for going to the 45 is that while the 44 mag I have now flattens pigs goats and fallow as long as they are hit in exactly the right spot it isn't quite enough for a heavy red stag. Shot a bison heifer ( used to farm them )smack in the forehead at 70 metres and it was like slow motion, with a delay of one second before anything happened, then plonk over.
I don't know how the 300blkts etc really go with their low energy numbers, but out of all choices the 45/70 is probably the best.
i know the sterling single barrel shotguns very well . . . owned one for many years but sadly sold off in a rash moment.
pictures of your project with ammo specs etc would be appreciated when it is done, sounds very interesting.
and look forward to your observations when the .45 is used in anger.
cheers for the mention of Outlaw State Projectiles . . . dont know them, they look effective and nodoubt expensive, always a problem with high tech jobs.
Attachment 87173
bullet on the right ( 340grns ) is the one i have been paper patching . . . results so far average 1.5 inches at 50 yards, vel 1055fps average, POI is 2 mils higher than the usual 405grn. bullet ( centre ) suppressor was checked between shots & found to be clean
next step is to find the time to cast some more bullets, then move the target out in steps to get more data . . . then shoot some animals.
theyre a little lighter than than the 405s and they have a wider flatpoint ( meplat ) so performance will a little different, how much i am keen to see.
bullet on the left is 300grns
Them's sure big Metplats Rossi, Elmer Keith will be smiling down at you with joy
managed a fast and loose session today to roughly check f i am good to go hunting with this load / settings
the target squares are 1 inch . . . full value breeze running 5mph
smacked the fry pan twice to Finnish . . all good.
Attachment 87277
first 2 of 8 shot . . 75-90 yards
Attachment 87359
Attachment 87360
Attachment 87361
all good shots . . performance was good, need some more shooting to see if there is any advantage over the 405s
just thinking out loud here Moa . . . if i set 405grns as an upper limit for bullet weight needed to do the job and increase the width of the meplat to the max and still get reliable feeding in the lever action using paper patched bullets,
like these designs
Attachment 87421
Attachment 87422
would Elmer approve . . .. i think so
I have been considering my answer before putting anything to print here rossi. For a start Elmer would approve of those Metplats. For us to have a definitive answer I think we need to go 'Cap in Hand' to Bill 999 on the first page of this thread and get some of his 500grainer's and Hollowpoint them unless he has some he's prepared earlier and is just waiting for us to ask / kneel / beg / prostrate ourselves before him etc. (which I am willing to do if required) for a comparative test.
What I have noticed with my 44 and the 300grn XTP is that if I shoot a hare at any range out to 120metres there is a loud Wohck sound as the poor creature is dramatically flattened and lays without a single twitch or movement. Often in a rigid tense unrelaxed stricken pose in death. But the same projectile on a pig can do very little. For example two wild pigs shot in the neck just behind the head with the bullet passing just above the spine ran off with heads hanging down and unable to lift them because the muscles and ligaments had been cut. One needing shot again and the other a knife behind the front leg.
I thought 'bugger this' I'll drill the Hollowpoints out a bit more with a drill bit in the case trimmer, but what horrible dry hard- to- cut stuff it is. Not what I expected for a low velocity pistol bullet. The bullets don't mushroom or even toadstool more like a 'shaggy ink cap' than a Porcini.
So for a start we need to know what the recipe is for the lead in Winchesters wonderful 22 subsonics, procure some 450 grain HP's in that lead and compare them to your 'Elmers Delights'. Looking at the Outlaw State HP's they have mushroomed really well, with a much bigger frontal area than a big metplat.
good on ya Moa . . . i will give this some thought
R.
You could buy a box of those 22 Winchester , remove the projectiles from the cases, melt them and cast a few big bullets and test the hardness? At 42 grains you need ten to make one of your big pill
Not at all a meritless idea Friwi, in fact quite obvious but something that had never occurred to my very average powered brain !! Thankyou
Earlier today (it was raining) I googled up some interesting info about shockwaves and in particular 'Bow shock' as in 'Bow wave' (as in boat) not to be confused with Robin Hood. It would appear that the large Metplat creates a wide shock-wave and this is what causes the effect on the target not a pushing of material ahead of it. There was some ambiguity in the explanation regarding subsonic as opposed to supersonic shock waves, something that we probably need Sheldon Cooper to explain.
interesring Moa . . . i was thinking about this very concept yesterday . .. the meplat is similar in action as when you push the flat of your hand away from you in water.
plus . . . the sharp edge disrupts / tears tissue instead of allowing it to slide past . . . sounds good anyway
just woke up thinking about part of the answer to your ealier post . . . this is interesting
R.
Well all my advanced secrets exposed ! The tape enhances accuracy by holding the focus on the scope in the same place and the plumbing fitting is the end result of a great deal of experimentation so no scoffing from anyone please. In unmodified original form the fore-stock is held on by a silly pin brazed to the barrel. The fore-stock holds the barrel onto the action. I shortened the fore-stock and attached the plumbing fitting with casting resin which also fills out the hollow in the short piece of f stock left. This let me have the maximus sit back as far as possible and also allows the rifle to be quickly assembled or disassembled depending on the urgency of the situation prevailing at the time. One last secret is that the but-plate is modified and held on with a spring allowing a stash of ammo to be kept inside the stock for emergencies like when a Mob is encountered.
Well Rossi, as it was mothers day yesterday should we all presume that you conducted these experiments in the bath with your missus, good to know you maintained focus despite potential distracting factors !!
strange as it may seem Moa i dont want an expanding bullet, for what i want to do with the animals i target at the range i want to shoot out to there is no advantage . . . i will leave that in your capable hands, i just havent got the time needed to do it justice . . . but i look forward to your results as i am sure those watching this thread will as well.
R.
Attachment 87652It certainly does strike me as strange rossi and more than that may I here express my genuine heart felt disappointment that the joyous youthful desire for experimentation and advancement you once held in your breast has drained from you like the used bathwater on mothers day (this is a reference to an earlier reply for anyone reading this post in isolation) All I can do is hope that the spark is not fully extinguished.
Moa ya rascal, i shall try to explain . . . i thought you would have guessed i am a Zealot and a folower of the only true prophet Elmer Keith & his disciple Ross Seyfield of Big Bore handgun fame . . those who use hollowpoints are heretics and should be cast out into the wilderness as were the the lowly british infidels of DumDum infamy
bit of a ramble here . . .
the pros and cons of hollowpoints vrs BigFlatPoints at sub speed . . to me . . & this is opinion not facts . . hollowpoints are for close range use, they are a negative at distance and lesson the properties of the Big Meplat . . my interest is to push the range out to 200-300 yards with subs using cast lead bullets . . . i have no interest with high tech / expensive bullets.
for i dont know how many years now i have been shooting out past 300yrds with .22 subs & sub .30calibers & .45s up close - i have tried hollow points, Big, small, deep ones, split nose bullets, SWC, all sorts . . . and eventually decided they arent for me . . . now i am trying heavier .45 bullets n the .45/70 which so far look like the answer . . for me . . but its early days.
my style of hunting is to pass on tricky shots, i will let the animal walk . . so i don't need the extra knockdown power or insurance of a hollow point if things don't go right at close range . . plus my hit list has only lightly built animals, no pigs with shields to cause me problems. if i did have swine on the menu my choice of bullet would be different.
it is early days . . . started with the 405s and in the last few weeks onto paper patching the 340s to see if the techeque has anything to offer, it does, i am keen now to run with that for awhile . . . but . . i dont chase the Goats or Deer that often, once a month or even less, any meat is mostly given away.
my main interest for the last couple of years is LR varmint shooting, i love it . . i get out on the paddocks at least 2-3 times a week if i can which means i also spend a lot of time reloading to feed the rifles as well . . and bless my partner she encourages me to do it.
so Moa it will be up to you to run with the HollowPoints . . . i hope you take up the challenge & report back on your findings
R.
Make sure you keep the LR varmint faith going Rossi, interesting thread though, I had a 44 mag once and loved it. Think it kindled a fondness for slow moving large diameter bullets.
I think the discussion on big slow moving lead vs small high speed has been around for centuries and probably always will be.
no worries there @viper . . . hitting small targets at the edge of your ability is addictive . . . in some of the best country.
i was out n about yesterday with the heavy barrel Quad using subs - today it was the .223AI - tomorrow if all the stars lineup i plan on taking the .222 out for a run, if the weather gets worse the 6mm - there is nothing better than that . . . to me.
why wouldnt ya have a fondness for big bullets . . its like big country girls
my biggest problem is time . . . i dont have enough of it
And God so loved the man, that on the sixth day he created the Chainsaw and Gunpowder, and he saw that it was good!
Today it was, as though another hand guided mine... ( No this is about religious enlightenment you perverts) to the keys and I made a remarkable discovery. In the same way as when God gave the stone tablets inscribed with the Ten Commandments to Moses (John Moses Browning that is) I was given enlightenment when I read 'The Gospel Of Glen Fryxell' translated from the original Hebrew texts. Glens Gospel can be read by searching the following on Google 'Cast Hollowpoints the next Generation' by Glen E Fryxell.
Repent thy sins Rossi and cast the flat point no more. Elmer Keith is a disciple but not a Messiah
With all this talk of Zealots, Prophets, disciples and infidels from rossi and keeping the faith from viper may I humbly suggest that you two both go to YouTube and watch/listen to 'The Dead South' and their song 'In Hell I'll be In Good Company'
Bravo Moa . . . well done, you are a scholar and almost ( but close ) to being a poet, i like your style
i remember when i found this site . . . back in the day . . . it was a a wahoo moment, at last real information
Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,
and thats when i started fcking around with hollowpoints in earnest . . . damm you LASC
now i have always said its my opinion etc etc . . . and i do think Elmer strayed from the true path for awhile, now in hindsight its obviously the devils temptation at work . . . DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE, there are only tears to be had there and years of wandering in the desert . . . if you go subsonic LR . . HPs at close range or high velocity is a different kettle of fish, which should be eaten on Fridays
one last word of warning . . . when you feel your hand being guided be doubly on guard, its most likely the devils work . . say these words out loud 3 times " Elmer is my protector, i shall not stray from the true Path "
as soon as you can paint a cross over your front door in blood . . the neighbours will be alarmed but don't worry, you'll be the one laughing the next morning after the angels have done their nights work.
R.