Thread: 45/70 Subsonic

Originally Posted by pope2506

brillant, loved "that bastard son"

+++++5 good stuff

I have suppressed a Bergara barrel in 45/70 this avo.it is a take down model. It is quite cool, it comes at 20" long and factory threaded at 5/8-24. I cut it down a little bit and rethreaded at 18x1 which leave more meat and fitted an overbarrel suppressor magnum on it.

Just a quick picture.

Hi Friwi, great choice of cal and shooter.It is warming to think that the contributors to this thread may have helped guide you !

very cool Friwi . . . what optic are you going to use

Originally Posted by rossi.45

Bravo Moa . . . well done, you are a scholar and almost ( but close ) to being a poet, i like your style

i remember when i found this site . . . back in the day . . . it was a a wahoo moment, at last real information

Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,

and thats when i started fcking around with hollowpoints in earnest . . . damm you LASC

now i have always said its my opinion etc etc . . . and i do think Elmer strayed from the true path for awhile, now in hindsight its obviously the devils temptation at work . . . DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE, there are only tears to be had there and years of wandering in the desert . . . if you go subsonic LR . . HPs at close range or high velocity is a different kettle of fish, which should be eaten on Fridays

one last word of warning . . . when you feel your hand being guided be doubly on guard, its most likely the devils work . . say these words out loud 3 times " Elmer is my protector, i shall not stray from the true Path "
as soon as you can paint a cross over your front door in blood . . the neighbours will be alarmed but don't worry, you'll be the one laughing the next morning after the angels have done their nights work.

R.

Dear Rossi to further my understanding of the Gospels, I have finished reading two of Ross Seyfield's writings translated from the original Greek of 45/70 AD. I don't wish to appear overly pious however, Ross does speak of "coveting" a certain firearm. As we both know, 'To Covet' is to break a commandment, the tenth to be precise. If that wasn't bad enough he owned a Colt 45 Peacemaker which we also both know is referred to as 'The Devils Right Hand' by Steve Earl in his inspired Gospel writings known today as the 'Copperhead Road album' and I quote "Nothing touched the trigger but the devils right hand" So Rossi, please don't like Lot's wife at Soddom and Gomorah look back at the flatpoints you have left behind but instead look forward to the bright future, a 450 grn HP 10% Tin shining in Gods enlightenment lest you too be turned to a pillar of salt.

It is not mine but a customer's one who probably share the same religion as you two guys :-)
I am more modern, playing with a 458 socom ;-)

Originally Posted by pope2506

brillant, loved "that bastard son"

How outstanding, the Pope is tuned to the same music I love and I'm not even Catholic. Although sinful to admit, the chorus line in 'That Bastard Son' of "I just want liquor and dirty whores " is quite appealing. Just make sure you don't get caught singing it round the house !! Then there's the chorus line to Banjo Odyssey " I guess that she's my cousin but she needs some sweet lovin anyway" Darn good band to listen to whilst working on gun projects.

Originally Posted by Friwi

It is not mine but a customer's one who probably share the same religion as you two guys :-)
I am more modern, playing with a 458 socom ;-)

its a nice looking rig and threading/crown job . . . looking at the suppressor i am thinkin he might want to consider another 3 modules, mine needed them to get decent noise reduction.

458 socom has such a cool name . . . just saying it makes ya think of Special Ops etc

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Dear Rossi to further my understanding of the Gospels, I have finished reading two of Ross Seyfield's writings translated from the original Greek of 45/70 AD. I don't wish to appear overly pious however, Ross does speak of "coveting" a certain firearm. As we both know, 'To Covet' is to break a commandment, the tenth to be precise. If that wasn't bad enough he owned a Colt 45 Peacemaker which we also both know is referred to as 'The Devils Right Hand' by Steve Earl in his inspired Gospel writings known today as the 'Copperhead Road album' and I quote "Nothing touched the trigger but the devils right hand" So Rossi, please don't like Lot's wife at Soddom and Gomorah look back at the flatpoints you have left behind but instead look forward to the bright future, a 450 grn HP 10% Tin shining in Gods enlightenment lest you too be turned to a pillar of salt.

now i dont think its Cricket Moa to imply with biblical references that somehow your adversary " Plays for the Other team " so to speak, even if its a rather vague reference . . . am i taking this out of context, definitely, desperate times call for desparate measures.

anyway . . .

i do think that anything over 405grns. is getting into Cape Buffalo territory . . . animals in NZ just arent that Big and tough to need more bullet weight, 400 is overkill now.

ramble alert . . .

last time i went up the Hill with my Son to show him how the .45/70 is working, he has seen the .30cals in action so kinda knew what to expect . . . he was amazed at the power of the .45cal 340s
they didnt fall down they were smashed down, the Big Billy was hit front on and his chest collapsed in on itself, fast, like being hit with a sledgehammer . . the others were side on shoots with full thru n thru penetration with bullets hitting the rocks behind them with a SMACK . . . seriously dude i dont think you need another 100+ grains

but you want what you want, but talking time is over . . . " lets get it on " . . . get those bullets and get out there, do whats needed to make it happen.


i know i won't be doing any work with the .45 for a few months at least, busy trying to get the last diehard Rabbits cleanned up over the Winter, i have shot most of the stupid/unlucky ones . . . as a bonus i have the .223 setup finally sorted with its own scope ( VX3 4.5-14 Varmint Ret ) which is now a machine

Rossi how come you can't use the. 45 on the bunnies.... Would turn into instant fertiliser

Originally Posted by 223nut

Rossi how come you can't use the. 45 on the bunnies.... Would turn into instant fertiliser

never thought of it to be honest 223 . . . . Moa describes the results with a .44 on Hares so a .45 should work fine

which brings me to another ramble alert . . .

to me shooting Hares/Rabbits etc to get your eye in with a rifle setup is a great idea . . . if you can hit a little critter at 100+ yards your good to go on bigger game, move the range out to when you cant hit them, you have learnt something important then.

as an interesting historical note . . . as Elmer is credited with the .44mag

Ross Seyfield did a lot to bring the .475 Linebaugh & the man to the publics attention thru his writing in GUNS & AMMO . . . back in the day.
i can remember well the look of the BIG bullets he was using . . . there is nodoubt from that time on i was a convert.
in some ways i consider myself lucky to have observed the steady rise of the BIG bores . . . bless the US for all its faults it has given us some great toys to play with.

ramble over . . . R

Originally Posted by rossi.45

never thought of it to be honest 223 . . . . Moa describes the results with a .44 on Hares so a .45 should work fine

which brings me to another ramble alert . . .

to me shooting Hares/Rabbits etc to get your eye in with a rifle setup is a great idea . . . if you can hit a little critter at 100+ yards your good to go on bigger game, move the range out to when you cant hit them, you have learnt something important then.

Dear Rossi and 223nut, I did have the 44 zeroed at 100 mtrs but found that I would over-shoot big game animals because of excitement and rushing whereas Hares I would never miss. What I have done is re-sight the 44 dead on at 60 mtrs exactly the same as the 22 with subs. So now the shooting that I do with the 22 is directly transferable practice for the 44 if that makes sense. I would be very interested in what range rossi has found works best. I shoot over a dog for big game and rabbits.

Originally Posted by rossi.45

now i dont think its Cricket Moa to imply with biblical references that somehow your adversary " Plays for the Other team " so to speak, even if its a rather vague reference . . . am i taking this out of context, definitely, desperate times call for desparate measures.

anyway . . .

i do think that anything over 405grns. is getting into Cape Buffalo territory . . . animals in NZ just arent that Big and tough to need more bullet weight, 400 is overkill now.

ramble alert . . .

last time i went up the Hill with my Son to show him how the .45/70 is working, he has seen the .30cals in action so kinda knew what to expect . . . he was amazed at the power of the .45cal 340s
they didnt fall down they were smashed down, the Big Billy was hit front on and his chest collapsed in on itself, fast, like being hit with a sledgehammer . . the others were side on shoots with full thru n thru penetration with bullets hitting the rocks behind them with a SMACK . . . seriously dude i dont think you need another 100+ grains

but you want what you want, but talking time is over . . . " lets get it on " . . . get those bullets and get out there, do whats needed to make it happen.


i know i won't be doing any work with the .45 for a few months at least, busy trying to get the last diehard Rabbits cleanned up over the Winter, i have shot most of the stupid/unlucky ones . . . as a bonus i have the .223 setup finally sorted with its own scope ( VX3 4.5-14 Varmint Ret ) which is now a machine

Attachment 87803

Dear rossi, you are 'straw clutching' at best and we both know it. To even hint that my reference to Lot's wife carried a tiny suggestion of getting your targets confused. We are both men of Honor and I would never stoop to such tactics. You are capable of much better humor filled retorts.
As to Buffalo, I owned the biggest herd of Nth American Bison in NZ for a while (50 animals) and I can state with my hand on a stack of Bibles that a 300 grn XTP at 1025 fps is not enough for a bison. In fact a 405 grn at sub velocities would not be enough. At higher velocity yes. And while I am on this bit about Bison there are no doubt blokes reading this and wondering 'why so much religion boys' well guess the full name of the chap who made the Sharps Rifles - Christian Sharps !! So Rossi and I haven't started something, we are just following those who have gone before.
My thoughts on bullet weight and performance are thus: We want stopping power and trajectory and subsonic quietness. Velocity with subs is a constant, we cant increase velocity for more target energy and a flatter trajectory. A long high BC bullet will give us a bit better trajectory and retained energy. So Hollowpointing allows a projectile to be made longer at the same weight. I think the Outlaw State designs probably have it for big diameter calibers. Look at some of those LeHigh subsonic bullets all Hollowpoints. The other important matter is energy transfer. My 300 grn XTP's will pass through like your 405's on fallow and small pigs which means that we are not achieving the optimum shock wave effect in the game. We all want humane quick kills. Here is an example to consider, I remember reading about the bloke who developed the 220 swift. He machined up some solids ( to withstand the velocity) for testing on rabbits. A feeding rabbit was selected, at the first shot the rabbit paused and then continued feeding, at the second shot it laid its ears flat, the third shot was with a projectile that had grooves machined in it, the rabbit was cut in half. All shots hit the target. I would like to achieve that 'instant rigor' effect I described happens with Hares and Paradise rabbits, or as near as could be.
PS if you are interested I have a 2506 AI that is very effective on 'the last rabbits' you are welcome to borrow

I wonder if longer bullets with hollow points don't imply a slightly faster twist rate for stability?
The top black powder silhouette shooters in the USA are now using Krieger barrels with 1 in 17 or 1 in 16" twist ( I believe) with 500+ grains bullets in their "45" rifles. I ll try to dig out the articles from Mike Venturino on that subject.