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Thread: Green Party and 1080

  1. #1
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    Green Party and 1080

    Below is my reply to the Green Party after they tried to defend aerial 1080.

    Hi Eugenie,

    I assume that you did mean to write to me. My name is Martin. I also assume you have a copy of my proposal.

    The proposal is based on my own successful experience of trapping and autopsying possums to rid the possum population of TB. AHB/TBFree knew of this work at the time I did it, and claimed that, although my work did target TB possums effectively, 1080 was cheaper.

    The publicly quoted prices for aerial 1080 areas, typically $12-20/ha, are only 1/3 of the costs being spent on these areas.

    TBFree has admitted, in an independent audit in 2010, that they are spending $40+/ha. This does not include extra costs like chew-card monitoring, employing contractors to clean up areas where 1080 has not killed enough possums, catching wildlife to autopsy for TB and administration costs that are only associated with aerial 1080. This would mean that, when all the costs are added up, aerial 1080 would be costing at least 3 times what is being publicly quoted by the 1080 industry.

    The trapping proposal example has a cost of $10/ha/yr if the contract runs for 10 years. TBFree are typically laying aerial 1080 every 3 years which would make my proposal at least 25% cheaper, on the $40+/ha quote, and 50% cheaper when the extra costs are added in. The other difference is that the trapping proposal is able to identify the areas where TB is endemic, in the possum population, this is something that aerial 1080 cannot do.

    In the areas where possums are found to be not infected with TB, the price is on a par-33% cheaper with aerial 1080 (through the early contract termination payments), with the bonus being that it is sure that TB is not endemic in the possum population. In areas where TB is found, the price does rise above aerial 1080 by the addition of the 6 monthly targeting of TB infected possum populations.

    TBFree has also admitted that they have been monitoring post-aerial 1080 operations, against scientific advice, in a way that would ensure an under-estimation of the post operation possum population. I have proved this to be the case by analysing TBFree's own monitoring data from the Tararua Forest Park going back over 20 years.

    I have spoken with trappers, that have been employed to trap behind TBFree poison operations, and they have told me that they are catching too many possums to justify TBFree's claims, that TBFree has publicly made, after the poison operations. TBFree has the records of the excessive numbers of possums caught on their own record files. The trappers cannot speak out publicly as they have been legally gagged, with clauses in their contract, and they are fearful that by speaking up they will be offered no more work.

    Since I wrote my proposal, TBFree has released some scientific evidence that the mechanism for TB transfer, within the possum population, may not be den-sites and may be mother-to-joey, with adult females being geographically stable when they have claimed their territory, and young females setting up territories close to their mothers. Whatever the mechanism, TB infected possum populations seem to be geographically stable. The other point that came out of the TBFree information, is that female possums are the first to become poison/bait-shy and are the most difficult to kill with 1080.

    All I am asking is that the aerial 1080 areas be put up for open and fair tender. If this was the case, trappers would prove that they are able to do a better job than aerial 1080 in a cost effective manner. Please remember, that trappers only get paid after they have fulfilled the requirements of the contract, which means that if the trapper fails the money is still available to be spent cleaning up. Whereas, with an aerial 1080 operation, most of the animal control money is spent before a single animal has died. Open and fair tendering would not exclude the users of self-setting traps, and other methods, including aerial 1080, from putting up their own tenders and proposals that would target the desired outcome.

    My expertise lies with trapping and autopsying possums. However, I did ask the question, "Is DOC monitoring the canopy dwelling rats and stoats pre and post aerial 1080 operations?" The answer I got back was, "No, it is too expensive."

    I am confident that if the conservation work was also put out to open and fair tender, then the experienced bushmen/women would find ways of targeting multi-species, as has been done by DOC, on a long term trial of 20 years, that appears to do a better long term job of controlling possums,rats,stoats,ferrets and cats than aerial 1080. This work has never been published and released to the public.

    I have asked the manufacturer of the self-setting traps how much it would cost to use their traps. I was told $120/ha. It would appear, that the main cost is the traps themselves with the trade-off being the lowering of labor costs by not having to regularly visit the trap-sites.

    The other point of concern, is that DOC has switched to Bite-Mark monitoring of possum populations. This is very concerning, as all the scientific evidence points to possum populations becoming poison/bait-shy after being exposed to 1080. The Bite-Mark monitoring relies on possums biting a wax-tag, which is something they are unlikely to do if they are poison/bait-shy. This means that DOC is not recording the poison/bait-shy possums present in the control area. I have also spoken to a possum control contractor that was been failed, on the strength of pigs biting the wax-tags, with both DOC and the regional council readers, of the bite-marks, recorded pig bites as possum bites.

    Kind regards.....Martin Foote





    On 25 June 2014 19:30, Eugenie Sage <Eugenie.Sage@parliament.govt.nz> wrote:
    Dear Mike

    Thanks for your email and apologies for the delay in replying. The Green Party is committed to promoting practical alternatives to aerial 1080 in areas that cause community concern such as close to waterways and residential areas. To this end the Green Party secured Government funding for large scale trials of self-setting traps under the Memorandum of Understanding between the National Government and the Green Party after the 2008 Election. I visited Lake Rotoiti in Nelson Lakes National Park to inspect one of the trials of these self-setting traps. The traps have or are being trialled on stoats, possums and rats. The traps are powered by small gas canisters and reset themselves each time they kill a pest, meaning that they need to be checked much less frequently. Each gas canister lasts for around 20 kills so may be able to be left to work without checking for up to 12 months. If they prove effective they may be able to be used more widely for ground-based pest control.


    While alternatives to 1080 are being researched, these are not sufficiently developed to replace it. The Green Party will continue to advocate strongly for research and development to improve the safety, efficiency and effectiveness of pest control and for a variety of control methods to reduce the reliance on 1080.

    Your suggestion to TB Free NZ that you be allowed to compete with aerial drops is interesting. TB Free uses a lot of ground based poisoning and trapping. Aerial control is about a third the price of ground based control and this may be why your offer was declined.

    Yours sincerely,

    Eugenie Sage, Green MP

  2. #2
    OPCz Rushy's Avatar
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    Well reasoned and rational reply. All power to your right arm Martin.
    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
    What more do we need? If we are above ground and breathing the rest is up to us!
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  3. #3
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    1080 politics? No thank you Marty
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    The Universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead. -Mr Peanutbutter

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibo View Post
    Family photo?...or just you and a couple of your friends?
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    Which is worse, ignorance or apathy...I don't know and don't care.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    Family photo?...or just you and a couple of your friends?
    Just me and the boys having a clean after a 4 day hunting trip.
    steven, initiaz and Dawg like this.

  8. #8
    OPCz Rushy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibo View Post
    Team talk with a bunch of arseholes.
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    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
    What more do we need? If we are above ground and breathing the rest is up to us!
    Rule 1: Treat every firearm as loaded
    Rule 2: Always point firearms in a safe direction
    Rule 3: Load a firearm only when ready to fire
    Rule 4: Identify your target beyond all doubt
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    Rule 7: Avoid alcohol and drugs when handling firearms

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibo View Post
    Just me and the boys having a clean after a 4 day hunting trip.
    And then you all move onto that game, "hide the sausage"
    Which is worse, ignorance or apathy...I don't know and don't care.

  10. #10
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    Hardly surprising seeing Euginie worked for Forest and Bird for 15 years!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  11. #11
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    I am disappointed with the 1080 supporters. Normally they are all over a thread that is against 1080. I am not surprised through, as you will have gone back to your 1080 industry pay-masters and they would have told you to stay silent for the following reasons:

    1) Marty Foote has done the TB eradication work he has claimed and is correct about the cost of aerial 1080.

    2) AHB has always employed, and is still employing, trapping contractors that have done, and are doing, a better job than aerial 1080.

    3) DOC does have a 20 year multi-species trapping trial that is doing a better job than aerial 1080.

    4) DOC has no idea if aerial 1080 is killing canopy dwelling rats and stoats as DOC isn't doing any monitoring in the canopy. Ignorance is bliss as far as the 1080 industry goes.

    In short. There has always been a cost effective alternative solution to aerial 1080, that both AHB and DOC have covered up in order to support their government employee mates in the 1080 industry who, in turn, provide evidence to justify the AHB and DOC management jobs.

    Come on 1080 supporters. Do the right thing. Either, put up refuting arguments, or openly accept that the 1080 industry has been caught out, and is desperately trying to wipe it's collective nether regions at the same time as pulling their pants up.

    Cheers....Marty
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  12. #12
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    5) People are over it, and would rather discuss shooting and hunting.
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  13. #13
    unit moonhunt's Avatar
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    Try the other pub Marty
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  14. #14
    Lovin Facebook for hunters kiwijames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Foote View Post
    I am disappointed with the 1080 supporters. Normally they are all over a thread that is against 1080. I am not surprised through, as you will have gone back to your 1080 industry pay-masters and they would have told you to stay silent for the following reasons:

    1) Marty Foote has done the TB eradication work he has claimed and is correct about the cost of aerial 1080.

    2) AHB has always employed, and is still employing, trapping contractors that have done, and are doing, a better job than aerial 1080.

    3) DOC does have a 20 year multi-species trapping trial that is doing a better job than aerial 1080.

    4) DOC has no idea if aerial 1080 is killing canopy dwelling rats and stoats as DOC isn't doing any monitoring in the canopy. Ignorance is bliss as far as the 1080 industry goes.

    In short. There has always been a cost effective alternative solution to aerial 1080, that both AHB and DOC have covered up in order to support their government employee mates in the 1080 industry who, in turn, provide evidence to justify the AHB and DOC management jobs.

    Come on 1080 supporters. Do the right thing. Either, put up refuting arguments, or openly accept that the 1080 industry has been caught out, and is desperately trying to wipe it's collective nether regions at the same time as pulling their pants up.

    Cheers....Marty
    Im too busy rolling in 1080 cash from my "industry pay-masters" to come up with with facts.
    We have been able to sway successive blue and red political parties, leadership changes and the GFC yet we still manipulate the government to pump our poison across the land.

    Or I could just spout a heap of unsubstantiated rhetoric like you.

    Or maybe you could pull your head outta your arse.

    Take a hike Marty Foote
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  15. #15
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    What happened to no politcs?
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