Thread: Its happening now part of history.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

I dont know, but I have talked to some scientists who were working with our DOC a few years ago, about the subject. I am just pointing out there is a disparity between our hunting community's enthusiasm for shooting cats and actual science. Meanwhile rodents are a serious threat to our native birds and their eggs. Anyway, shoot what you like. This comes up every now and then.

Ok...I shall just put this here for you to ponder and leave it at that ok? You believe that because cats eats lots of rats and mice and only a few birds when occasion pops up they are ON BALANCE doing ok for our ecosystem and good for the birds.... Do I have that about right???? Ok fair enough your entitled to believe what you believe. Ferrets,stoats and weasels came to our shores because they are great at eating rats,mice and rabbits.....so "somebody" who was thought to be clever about these things at that point in history believed they would be good for our ecosystem..............

Mickey Duck blame our early pommy settlers they wanted what they had back in pommy land to hunt- - dont mind pheasants and deer but rabbits really

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ok...I shall just put this here for you to ponder and leave it at that ok? You believe that because cats eats lots of rats and mice and only a few birds when occasion pops up they are ON BALANCE doing ok for our ecosystem and good for the birds.... Do I have that about right???? Ok fair enough your entitled to believe what you believe. Ferrets,stoats and weasels came to our shores because they are great at eating rats,mice and rabbits.....so "somebody" who was thought to be clever about these things at that point in history believed they would be good for our ecosystem..............

Cam Speedy showed us a pic of 1 cat that had killed 17 short tailed bats in a few days, definetely not good for the ecosystem , old Ginger is not a good thing in the forest

On Rakiura 80% of feral cats diet is rats.After that they are opportunistic feeders. Mainly around the beach areas as sick seabirds and fish etc are free to be scavenged. They would eat lizards and geckos and probably some of the bigger insects and birds eggs.

Rats on Rakiura mainly live on seed fall from trees. Remember there's 3 kinds of rats living here. Ship, Norway and Kiore rats. Theres no mice here cause the rats eat them and they don't get a chance to breed up. After a big Mast or seed fall event [roughly every 7 years] rats do so well they go into nearly plague proportions due to the abundant food source.. After the food source diminishes rats in numbers get hungry and will predate on any food source to the point of turning carnivoros to themselves. Cats will be getting fat off the rats until there are low numbers and cats switch prey back to other food sources.
Rats in plague numbers is something to see. Go and stand anywhere in the bush and watch them scuttling about the trees and shrubs. Coming out on the beaches looking for food. Have a good look around big Miro trees and see all the eaten seed husks by rats.Ive had many interactions from rats and have worked for the local pest control group and my partner has a small business trapping rats locally about Half-moon Bay to keep them out of our houses, cars, boats and in one case inside a residents gumboot.We all have many rat storys to share as would many hunters that come down to pit there wits against the whitetail deer. One hunting memory Ive got is a friend and I shot two bucks and hung them in a tree as you do and in the morning the rats had chewed the noses completely off the animals, right down to the gristle. I really believe that there will be rats left to carry on after the ''Pest free Rakiura'' operation is done and dusted. Rakiura is 176,000 hectares in size and that's a big ask to believe they will get them down to zero and keep it that way. Some notable type once said ''after humans have gone the only things left, will be rats and cockroaches''.

Sad and strange days here on the Island for many locals and no doubt happy days for the conservation brigade and others. We've sat through many meetings and felt frustrated by a major push by DoC and ZiPs to get this project started. '' This will be a world first Inhabited Island to become pest free.'' was some of the first mantras they chanted. They have done there best to convince us that they can get this outcome by quoting other areas that they've nearly achieved there goals shown us there Ai cameras and technology and of course there scientific data . Other groups were brought to the Island to tell us how well 1080 operations worked for them in other parts of NZ.
In turn the groups opposed to it have brought there own experts to contradict or give there versions etc and at the end of the day the first 1080 has been dropped with some success and so far 3 whitetail deer have been found dead with a few rats possums and one cat have been found dead. There will be many others no doubt as anyone who has tried to get around the interior of the Island will know how thick and gnarly it is to search for dead things.

Whitetail deer will be hit to some extent as already some have been found even with the repellant. Im sure a collateral damage is execeptable to those that sit in green offices, while saying that the deer that survive will come back healthier and bigger. Mr Cam Speedy came down and told us that. Of late red deer have bred up a bit with some seen in areas that they were last seen by 40 or 50 years ago. Im sure some of those will get taken out also and maybe they need to, but that's a different argument. I love my Whitetail deer, to hunt them, to watch them and to harvest great organic meat off them. They've given me 40 yrs of great memories and I Consider them as part of our culture and as hunters we all know of the health benefits we get both physically and mentally.

I have very strong personal feelings about the ''Pest free Rakiura'' and some even stronger than mine. Sodium monoflouroacetate has been used in NewZealand for well over 50 years now and every time the agencies that use it chant ''that its the best tool in there toolbox'' and they've opened the tool box here on Rakiura well and truely. Isn't it time to find a new tool box!

Strange how my post got scubbed???

Originally Posted by SmokeyJason

Strange how my post got scubbed???

not really considering the politically charged content..... as well you know that shit is not welcome here

yes exactly I have 35 years managing possum operations and there is other ways - trapping is one mixed with some baiting and 1080 could be used in bait stations -cyanide forget it its usefull for an initial knockdown but many possums wont take it - the reason DOC dont/wont go down that track is cost - but the harsh reality is for cats trapping will be needed - if they use a meat 1080 bait then that would have to go out in a bait station surely otherwise a number of birds would be vulnerable to it if it was just sown- moreporks for one - they dont have to do the Island all at once - they could divide it into 5-6 blocks- do one block each year in a rotation- now they the boffins will argue that pests will come into the treated block from untreated areas - its all about just what degree of reinfestation is acceptable - they will be doing the Island for some time and it will be a maintenance operation rather than a eradication attempt - its getting them to accept that may be the case - they are all led on by buffoons who believe their own hype - when I worked for DOC eradication was a word we did not use at all withe the only exception was small off shore Islands - we always used the term and did maintenance control- now I hear them talk eradication and over large areas - are they now all on serious drugs its a bloody joke - in small enclaves maybe eradication in achievable but elsewhere - pull my other leg

Originally Posted by dannyb

not really considering the politically charged content..... as well you know that shit is not welcome here

Anything to do with 1080 is political

Originally Posted by dannyb

not really considering the politically charged content..... as well you know that shit is not welcome here

political content you disagree with you mean...

Great post @ghosts , NZ pest free 2050...they are dreaming , no rats on Rakiura an impossible task I would of thought also , and at what cost , the pros and cons of the green pellets have been the subject of many debates , you would think there would be a better solution but no-one has got one yet, , there was mutterings that someone was working on a way of making possums sterile , imagine the Australians biosecurity of that crossing the borders into their land where they prize the little possum .

last I heard on that one Lucky went like- we have the way to make possums sterile - what we dont have is a safe carrier to get it to the possums - and it will likely only be like a bait one dose one sterile possum not something that is going to spread thru the population like a virus - when one looks at that scenario then it has to pass serious criteria - it would have to be host specific i.e just possums affected - it wont mutate and turn itself into something else - it wont jump species and start effecting say sheep - its safe to humans - so yes I believe a small team is or was looking at it though but big obstacles

Originally Posted by Lucky

Great post @ghosts , NZ pest free 2050...they are dreaming , no rats on Rakiura an impossible task I would of thought also , and at what cost , the pros and cons of the green pellets have been the subject of many debates , you would think there would be a better solution but no-one has got one yet, , there was mutterings that someone was working on a way of making possums sterile , imagine the Australians biosecurity of that crossing the borders into their land where they prize the little possum .

The govt has shares in 1080.they make money with your mony.
But yes if you keep doing the same and getting the same result then its time to change.
After someting like 75 yrs of use and the change isnt coming then its your duty to make sure ???

Originally Posted by SmokeyJason

Strange how my post got scubbed???

No not at all my friend.... I read what you had typed and refrained from replying,hoping it would be removed. Context is everything but it was just a dumb thing to type. The overseas situation is so far removed from this debate,discussion that to bring it up is farcical in the extreme and in very bad taste.

Originally Posted by SmokeyJason

Anything to do with 1080 is political

Originally Posted by STC

political content you disagree with you mean...

wrong on all counts.....political content that has been reported by other members, 1080 is always going to be an emotionally charged debate, generally I have my own opinions about it but I don't see the need to air them online (but that's me, no judgement on those who do) but play by the rules of this place or take your argument to facebook or some other outlet if you cant do this without breaking the rules here.

Dusty you know the rules about political content, I will not be drawn further into an argument with you about this, time to let it go thanks.
this has nothing to do with my personal views and or opinions.

Originally Posted by SmokeyJason

The govt has shares in 1080.they make money with your mony.
But yes if you keep doing the same and getting the same result then its time to change.
After someting like 75 yrs of use and the change isnt coming then its your duty to make sure ???

ok then....so you want change. Open your eyes.what is being done/ attempted IS CHANGE....it might not be the right one,but it's a change from doing faff all,to trying something big.and in these tight fiscal times,the boffins in high places and the bean counters across the board will be watching very very closely. The backlash already about putting a $40 charge on tourists in certain areas,shows the general public and media are watching too.... Personally I think they are on right track on that one but a blanket $100 at border for ALL non resident folks entering country everytime they do so would be vastly better and easier/ cheaper to do. I do not like 1080...never have and never will,I'm a dog person. But is we do not do " something" the battle will be lost before a shot is fired,every year we wait for something better so do nothing,the numbers swing further against the remaining few threatened species. Do I think they can make whole place predator free??? Not a shit show....but they can make a good attempt to hold the line and indeed push it back a bit further towards it.