Thread: Its happening now part of history.

In my experience with aerial 1080 - albeit a small , landlocked , single catchment area in central Taranaki - the "by-kill" on cats and mustelids is every bit as important as the kill rate on the "target" species.

There were no deer and only a handful of goats in the area at the time of the drop, and no dead goats were found. Deer repellant bait was not used.

While I'm somewhat ambivalent regarding the use of 1080 and the workings of DOC, ZIP etc I feel that one must consider all points of view and not rush of making blind accusations based on one's own preconceptions/bias. I wonder how many have taken the time to listen to podcasts or interviews regarding the forthcoming operations on Stewart Island and other locations. I have linked one such interview that some may care to take the time to listen to.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/progr...rn-nz-dotterel

Yes deer are susceptible to 1080 as proven through 1080 Gel trials performed in Greenstone/Caples valleys many years ago as well as the spectacular by-kill that happened on Molesworth a few years ago. By-kill is unfortunate and one may argue that DOC, ZIP and Predator Free Rakiura may be cynical in accepting this by-kill they must be mindful not to be seen as deliberately targeting deer with cereal baits as 1080 is only registered for deer control when used in Gel form or when applied via 1080 treated carrot baits as per regulations;
'1080 is registered for use on the following target species in New Zealand: wallabies (carrot, cereal pellets and gel); possums (paste, gel blocks, carrots, apple and cereal pellets); rabbits (paste, oats, carrots and cereal pellets); deer (carrots and gel); rodents (cereal pellets); wasps (paste) and cats (fish meal pellet). Its use is tightly controlled and includes requirement for public notification in the areas in which it is laid.'
I, like many hunters, value this Whitetail resource and hope that they won't be severely effected by this Predator Control Operation. But we need to remember that hunters as a group are not highly regarded by a large section of the NZ population and are certainly a minority group compared to the numbers supporting the protection of NZ's native flora and fauna. And No, I'm not a Forest and Bird member or some such, I am a dedicated hunter who does what I can to protect/enhance our NZ biodiversity. Just my 2c.

and woods223 we need to remember as hunters that DOC place value on the opinions of people who have never been to Stewart Island will never go to Stewart island and may in fact only attend a twig and tweet meeting in Auckland once a month -same thing happenend with wilderness areas people that would never use one had just as much say as someone who had hunted there for years its just the way it works lol

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

This comes up regularly, but no, they don't, only opportunistically. Cats are designed to hunt and eat rodents. So wild ones live near human habitation, where rat populations are higher.
This is why Fiordland national park is not full of cats after a 150 years.

Look, I had a cat they used to live off rabbits and the odd seagull. They are born killers, but if you dropped a cat into Fiordland it would starve to death despite all the native birds.

Cats should be left to eat the rodents.

You ever been to Stewart island??? Only opportunistic....yip that just about describes the place to a T. Fiordland is cold and wet....cats don't like wet..very very few of the world's cats of any species do.the furry little shit sitting on wife's chair catches birds and brings them to us...but never mice...I stick belled collar on her when she does...for hour or two and she leaves them alone for month or more...doesn't eat them just kills them.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

This comes up regularly, but no, they don't, only opportunistically. Cats are designed to hunt and eat rodents. So wild ones live near human habitation, where rat populations are higher.
This is why Fiordland national park is not full of cats after a 150 years.

Look, I had a cat they used to live off rabbits and the odd seagull. They are born killers, but if you dropped a cat into Fiordland it would starve to death despite all the native birds.

Cats should be left to eat the rodents.

Well on DOC Estate/Public Land and most private land, I shoot every cat I have the opportunity to. Those that aren't already disemboweled by the shot I cut open to see what they've been eating, Most times there's feathers in their digestive system but also bits of lizards, bugs etc and the odd bit of fur so I'd say they target whatever they come across. As to where they live. I would hardly call parts of Molesworth Stn, St. James, NLNP, MRFP, South Westland or inland Stewert Is. as being near human habitation, apart of course near regularly used huts.

I think if one dropped dear old Aunt Nellys Tiddles into fiordland yup bit fat prick would die but live capture a 20--30th generation wild from Westcoast and let it go he live okay

First trip to the island was in 1981 to the Hapuatuna block - well away from civilisation and we were plagued by wild cats trying to get into our food trying to get at our venison etc. prints in the sand in the morning after hight tide, spotted them out on the beach at low tide. And the big ginger Tom took a fair bit to kill… great big f’ing thing really had 9 lives.

They had to be hammering the bird life back then and can’t see how they won’t be still killing birds.

Ohh and in 6 +/- trips no one ever saw or complained about rats.

Originally Posted by woods223

Well on DOC Estate/Public Land and most private land, I shoot every cat I have the opportunity to. Those that aren't already disemboweled by the shot I cut open to see what they've been eating, Most times there's feathers in their digestive system but also bits of lizards, bugs etc and the odd bit of fur so I'd say they target whatever they come across. As to where they live. I would hardly call parts of Molesworth Stn, St. James, NLNP, MRFP, South Westland or inland Stewert Is. as being near human habitation, apart of course near regularly used huts.

How many are we talking about living further than three K's from a road or a hut? Compared to rats, stoats and possums do you think?

Feral cats absolutely smash native mammals, ground dwelling birds and reptiles over here. Yours maybe different though?


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I dont know, but I have talked to some scientists who were working with our DOC a few years ago, about the subject. I am just pointing out there is a disparity between our hunting community's enthusiasm for shooting cats and actual science. Meanwhile rodents are a serious threat to our native birds and their eggs. Anyway, shoot what you like. This comes up every now and then.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

I dont know, but I have talked to some scientists who were working with our DOC a few years ago, about the subject. I am just pointing out there is a disparity between our hunting community's enthusiasm for shooting cats and actual science. Meanwhile rodents are a serious threat to our native birds and their eggs. Anyway, shoot what you like. This comes up every now and then.

I shoot cats on sight cos of the bird and lizard thing. At home here there seems to be a co-relation between the neighbours having cats and the number of lizards. Have been no cats for a few years now and am seeing lizards again. Not very scientific.
But people will always find an excuse to shoot something. Like spur wing plovers and pukeko. And hares. I say if they aren't causing proper damage, leave them alone.
People say "but pukeko kill ducklings".... and then May comes and we shoot ducks in their thousands. Go figure. The poor Pukes are just trying to scratch out a living and doing their thing.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

How many are we talking about living further than three K's from a road or a hut? Compared to rats, stoats and possums do you think?

Waiting for my goat hunting partner to get ready for the day so had a bit of a think about this. Without trying to find some old hunting diaries I would say that over the last 20 years the number of cats shot would be somewhere around the two hundred mark. After looking at map with 10 km grid marks the majority would be more than three km from habitation or regularly used huts. Memory might be a bit fuzzy on numbers but not locations. Surprising where cats turn up at times.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

I dont know, but I have talked to some scientists who were working with our DOC a few years ago, about the subject. I am just pointing out there is a disparity between our hunting community's enthusiasm for shooting cats and actual science. Meanwhile rodents are a serious threat to our native birds and their eggs. Anyway, shoot what you like. This comes up every now and then.

It is well known that the Island has a healthy population of cats throughout. (And yes, I am a rate payer there) You mention scientists, I find the word "Scientist" repugnant and have lost any trust in "scientists" after the last 5 years. They are simply for hire and you will note that the outcome of their work 100% aligns with the opinions of whoever is paying their bill.
And, to be fair we don't actually need any "expert" do we, there are either cats there or there are not. Either way they are part of a chain that is decimating bird life. Tahr is 100% on the money, I also see a direct comparison to lizard populations and cat numbers in my area, including my own place.

Cats are hard to trap as well , I went to the Sika foundation roadshow the other night , they had some mind blowing data on cats , they a murdering bastards

yes they occur miles from huts and can be found in some very remote places - run into cats 2 days from civilization doing deer culling - there is more on edge of farms though to be fair - hard to trap yes but a well camouflaged leg hold is best - rabbit bait above trap is good - live capture traps will work but take time - camo the trap and bait inside and a little bit outside works - they seem to need a couple of days to get used to it - but then make a mistake and bingo