Thread: Its happening now part of history.

Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Maybe we can train the dogs to eat cats?

I've had dogs which were self training.

When we first bought this patch of dirt it had a population of thousands of Quail and hundreds eucalyptus slash piles. Ideal for Quail, and unfortunately perfect homes for wild cats. Unfortunately for the cats we had a ridgeback/boxer cross, who self taught how to effectively reduce the cat population. About 20 in the first year. Knew what the .22 was for, and would literally wet herself with anticipation when it came out for 'walkies'. Unfortunately tidying up the last few becomes exponentially difficult...and we still see one or two or three turn up on the trail cameras.

yes something about ridgebacks and cats my ridgeback loved cats and had to be watched all the time in town he just wanted the buggers

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

yes something about ridgebacks and cats my ridgeback loved cats and had to be watched all the time in town he just wanted the buggers

Rhodesian lion hound is the old name for them....so munching on pussy is what they were bred for. Beautiful dogs.

I worked with a guy from the Chathams who had a GSP which pretty slick on cats. One shake and their back would snap.
He had to move to town and I remember him saying "bastard got three the first night"

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Rhodesian lion hound is the old name for them....so munching on pussy is what they were bred for. Beautiful dogs.

yes various dogs including hounds and bull mastiff type dogs in the breed crossed with the hottentot hunting dog that they get the ridge from - used to breed them- had 5 over the years - my first two were not to bad as pig dogs and I used them as goat dogs - problem with them there was no bail on goats if ya did not hear the squawk from the goat when the ridgy got it - sometimes damn hard to find ya goat - my main dog was not to shabby at all indicating deer he knew not to break -

Decades back as a NZFS trainee stationed at Kaingaroa camp where several hundred men were accomodated in rows of huts a problem arose with stray cats. The OC approached me one day. I had a Q blue heeler bitch at the time with a very good hunting reputation. Dogs were not allowed to run loose in the camp but I was asked to release my dog amongst the camp on weekends. It became popular entertainment for us to set the dog at end of a row of huts and watch the ensueing chase from under hut to hut and row to row,, vehicle to vehicle until cat , cats were demolished. One day a crafty bugger climbed on tip of a front wheel under a mudguard. He could hook Kims nose with impunity ,he thought but after half an hour and with Kim having a bloody nose and really pissed off, she finally clamped onto that cats paw and dragged it out. Lots of fur flew

I had a GWP that chased a cat off the street into the front door of a railman's cottage. They both shot down the passage way and out the back door into the back yard. The cat shot over the back fence and the dog couldn't get over it. She fortunately didnt bark. After a little while Tilly came back to my whistles. I fortunately never saw anybody.

It was hard case cos as a kid I had read in a Peter Newton book about a dog of his doing the same thing.

NZDA Letter. Why we should all be members:

Honourable Todd McClay,
Minister for Hunting and Fishing,
T.McClay@ministers.govt.nz
29 August 2024
Dear Todd,
We felt it important to write to you to share the position of New Zealand Deerstalkers Association on the
recently announced progression of the Rakiura Predator Free project.
Rakiura and the unique experiences it offers for visitors and in particular hunters are highly valued by the
hunting community across New Zealand. NZDA branches and members organise trips to Rakiura
constantly and most of the hunting blocks, both public land and Maori land, are booked almost
continuously thoroughout the year.
While it varies a little, on average 600 parties travel to and hunt predominantly White-tailed deer while
enjoying fishing and diving (J. Delury 2024 pers comm). That equates to around 3000 people travelling to
the island annually and many have made the same trip for many years and some have been doing it for
decades.
Hunting visitors contribute to conservation in many ways on Rakiura in addition to keeping deer numbers
in check. Rat, possum, cat and weed control being predominant but also shoreline clean ups are supported
by hunters as well. The Masons Bay Rat work has been externally funded since shortly after it began. The
work is contributed by volunteers from the Southland Branch NZDA, who for 17 years have maintained a
trap line of 14 km controlling rats and cats in that area.
The Predator Free Rakiura Project has been talked about and developed over a very long time. NZDA is
signatory to a Memorandum of Understanding signed in 2019. The funding of the project by DOC in
partnership with Zero Invasive Pests through NEXT Foundation marks a significant point in the delivery of
this project.
Recently we have been engaged in discussions with both DOC and ZIP around trial work and the more
general proposition of an eradication project to remove Rats, Cats, Hedgehogs and Possums across the
entire island. We have approached this in an open minded and constructive manner and attempted to
provide our best advice. This last while we have finally been able to share the context of some of that
work with our members.
The proposed methodology is to aerially poison the island with high rates of 1080 cereal based bait
followed by a second round of toxin laced baits at half the rate. As you will appreciate this presents a
very significant risk to White-tailed deer who habitually feed from forest floors and seek more
concentrated foods. Cereal baits are like lollies to deer unless they are made unpalatable with repellent.
Trial work with White-tailed deer in the Dart Rees area at Glenorchy (Pinney et al 2021) demonstrated that
deer repellent is effective at reducing the uptake of baits but unfortunately those trials were conducted
with an older repellent that is not now available and had a short shelf life.
Even with the use of repellent deer will consume baits and while the mortality rate of that is a fraction
(estimated 10% with low sow rates) of any operation without repellent, it still results in considerable
impact on deer herds. In this case there would be an additional additive effect with two toxic applications
in short succession. Without repellent, observed mortality rates of 97% (Molesworth 2019) and 100%
mortality (Muller Station in 2019) are likely. With the two application method proposed the expectation
would be a similar outcome and a failure of the eradication due to deer removing so much bait. A study
of effectiveness of a new repellent "ProDeer" at Molesworth in 2021 proved its effectiveness to result in
2% accidental by-kill and most importantly there appeared to be no indication that use of repellent
reduced possum kill rates so it appears to mitigate the risk however that work was with Red Deer in open
country.
Deer have been excluded from the eradication list due to the cultural and community commitment to
retaining them as both an attractant to visitors and as essentially the only red meat food resource for
islanders. This has been reiterated at various points along the development of the project and is recorded
in documents developing the project over 16 years. It is fair to state that it was a prerequisite for the
project being palatable to island inhabitants and hunters alike. The recent confirmation that this project
will use aerially applied 1080 baits is extremely concerning as registration of the toxin 1080 excludes
aerial use to control deer. Without use of repellent this operation will target deer by default. This is a
difficult space for all parties and many abhor the use of aerially applied toxins generally.
NZDA supports the idea of a predator free island and has communicated this with our members and
across our media statements (attached). However, it is predicated on the protection of the deer herds. At
present there is no guarantee that the contracted party will respect and honour previous assurances and
we want to make you aware there is a considerable risk to both a heavily utilised hunting resource but
also social acceptance of these types of operations going forward from a poor decision made for
Rakiura.
It is our belief that regardless of if PFR trial work is successful or not it will be the relationship with local
community groups and the greater visitor community that dictates the future of further operations.
NZDA members support the general proposition of PFR but it is contingent on commitment to doing the
utmost to both reduce impact on visiting hunting parties and any mortality of deer through the use of
effective deer repellent across the entire island. We felt it necessary to highlight to you the importance of
this experience to hunters and the island community as well and we hope this letter helps inform you as
to what the issues are and what our approach to those issues will be.
We would welcome the opportunity to meet with you directly and answer any questions you may have
for us.
References:
Morriss, G., Yockney, I., Nugent, G. (2021). High effectiveness of deer-repellent Prodeer 1080 possum bait in
the northern South Island high country, Manaaki Whenua, Landcare Research, OSPRI-R-1005
NZDA Advocacy Alert, https://www.deerstalkers.org.nz/reso...vocacy-update-
predator-free-rakiura/
Pinney, K. A., Ross, J. G., & Paterson, A. M. (2021). Assessing EDR and a novel deer repellent for reducing
by-kill of white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus), during aerial 1080 operations. New Zealand
Journal of Zoology, 49(3), 199–214. https://doi.org/10.1080/03014223.2021.1978510
Kind regards,
Craig Benbow
Rakiura Lead NZDA
Callum Sheridan
National President NZDA

That in itself is worth the cost of membership

NZDA Letter. Why we should all be members:


Cmon guy's. You don't have to go the meetings. They are a voice for us that don't speak.

@Tahr. This a good appeal. However it wad addressed to the then minister of hunting almost a year ago. That minister has the portfolio no longer.
Do you know if the NZDA Appeal has haf any real effect on the current activities and plans of ZIP and DoC?

Originally Posted by Woody

@Tahr. This a good appeal. However it wad addressed to the then minister of hunting almost a year ago. That minister has the portfolio no longer.
Do you know if the NZDA Appeal has haf any real effect on the current activities and plans of ZIP and DoC?

In NZDA news letter last week:

Rakiura Whitetail Trust Formed
A Big Step in the Right Direction

Dear Bruce,

We’re pleased to share some fantastic news for New Zealand hunters. The Rakiura Whitetail Trust has officially been formed.

A big thank you to NZDA Immediate Past President Craig Benbow, along with Roy Sloan and Adam Fairmaid from the Fiordland Wapiti Foundation, who took the time and effort to form the Trust. We also acknowledge NZDA Life Members John DeLury and Ray Phillips, who, through their involvement with the Rakiura Hunter Camps Trust, strongly support and endorse the Rakiura Whitetail Trust — as NZDA does.

We also understand that additional trustees from among local hunters on the island are represented, although we do not yet know their identities. Your collective commitment on behalf of recreational hunters is deeply appreciated.

The Rakiura Whitetail Trust will advocate for the sustainable management of the whitetail deer population on Rakiura / Stewart Island. This is a vital step in ensuring the herd, a significant part of our hunting heritage, remains for future generations.

Why the Trust matters:
Whitetail deer on Rakiura face threats from National Park status and lack of legal protections.
The Predator Free Rakiura project could significantly impact the herd.
Rational debates, ecologically sound approaches and methodologies are needed for the management of Whitetail deer on Rakiura

The Trust’s objectives include:
Engaging directly with DOC and ZIP.
Minimising the impact of pest control toxins on whitetail populations.
Developing long-term management strategies with the Rakiura community.
Promoting evidence-based, ecologically sound deer management.

How you can help:
Support from all hunters, especially whitetail hunters, is essential. The Trust will soon launch a Rakiura Whitetail Supporters Club and a new website. In the meantime, they need immediate backing to hit the ground running.

📧 To support the Trust or find out more, email RakiuraDeer@gmail.com

This is a huge win for hunters, herd management, and anyone who values New Zealand’s hunting heritage. Let’s get behind it.
Follow the Rakiura Whitetail Trust Facebook Page

NZDA IPP Craig Benbow, Hon Todd McClay, and NZDA National President Callum Sheridan
At the 77th NZDA National Conference, held in Invercargill in July, and with the theme “Wapiti and Whitetail”, delegates considered a specific agenda item discussing “the Future of Whitetail Herd”. All branches, except one, present agreed that NZDA, as the national body representing recreational hunters (Rule 3.1(b)), should be ready to initiate or support the creation of a dedicated whitetail deer focused organisation to safeguard our valued whitetail herds.

Conference subsequently approved the NZDA assisting the establishment of a Whitetail legal entity interest group — a national mechanism to be activated when required for the protection of the Wakatipu and Rakiura / Stewart Island herds. This decision was a direct exercise of NZDA’s constitutional mandate under Rule 3.2(g) to encourage and assist with the formation of other organisations deemed necessary or desirable in the interests of the sport and outdoors recreation generally. It also reflected the Association’s fundamental purpose under Rule 3.1(a) to ensure the traditions of recreational hunting and the rights of recreational hunters are protected, advanced, and advocated for.

The subsequent formation of the Rakiura Whitetail Trust (which includes as a Trustee, NZDA Immediate Past President C Benbow) delivers on the Stewart Island element of that mandate, meaning the whitetail-focused foundation will not need to be activated for that herd at this time. NZDA will step in if needed, but will also continue to use its own voice, representation, and seat at the table. NZDA has been the sole hunter voice on this issue, up until the welcome news that the Rakiura Whitetail Trust will now join the fight, and NZDA will continue to use our own voice — we will be present at all meetings, representing the interests of hunters nationally. A national Whitetail Foundation remains available should protection of the Wakatipu whitetail herd be required in future.

As our members know, NZDA has already met with Ministers and expressed our views on Whitetail herd on Stewart Island and the use of 1080 on Stewart Island. Our letters and correspondence are attached:
Letter to Minister for Hunting and Fishing dated 29 August 2024
Letter of reply to NZDA dated 25 September 2024

Hon Todd McClay’s letter of response to NZDA
This outcome demonstrates that NZDA had already anticipated and authorised protective action at a national level, countering any suggestion that hunters were not taking action. It is a clear example of NZDA carrying out its constitutional purpose — representing hunters, protecting valued game animals of national interest, and enabling the formation of bodies to achieve those aims.