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Lost an animal tonight :pissed off: Was hunting on my land. The bugger went over the fence or under:wtfsmilie:
Anyway too keep things legal rifle was left on my side of the fence while I looked for it as I have a knife.;) I'm still pissed off but lost the trail of blood. Searched on the other side for an hour,now I'm a fukn poacher:PAttachment 23061Attachment 23062Attachment 23063
That's a bugger Dundee.
On a side note: All this poaching talk has sparked my interest. I might have to give it a go myself. Since it looks like I might be in the market I might have to poach a replacement vehicle from the north island as there isn't much around here.
Sidney wrote...
It would seem to me, that the "increase in poaching"? coincides with increasing interest in hunting and reducing access to private property, because farmers now tend to view wild animals that they do not own, as a resource.
It would also seem to me that landowners are more indignant (because of their perception of ownership) about all this, and because they spend most of their time talking to themselves and not developing communication skills, they may not tend to engage particularly well with small bands of scruffy men carrying firearms. From a past life, a place of self righteousness and authority is no substitute for well developed communication skills, particularly when those you are dealing with may well lack in these areas as well.
I am very disappointed to read such a post on our forum...
The irony Dundee, you could still get trespassed even though no rifle. Did you have permission?
And witness a lack of communication skills... perhaps you should try and read it again and this time try to understand it
I was a farmer... it was a tongue in cheek remark almost self mocking.. and only seeking to point out the need to manage those situations carefully..
The first statement is observational, and would be an accurate reflection of many landowners opinions... Again having been a farmer I have seen and watched the access issues for years..
If you don't understand clarification is the first step......
@BRADS, it is not just a country/town thing. Town people put up big fences and gates and close themselves off from the rest of the world. They don't talk to their neighbours; one thing the quakes down here has changed to a degree. The problem is more that there is a certain element in our society that just don't care about anyone else and know that at worst it will be the wet bus ticket if caught. They ruin it for the good country folk and the good town folk. Over the years I've done a lot of work on farms and know the story well from both sides.
If these bad elements were properly dealt with then we would likely see the rural areas opened up more. At the moment a lot of the farmers that in the past would allow access across their property have been burnt and have stopped the access in order to curtail the problems. The flip side is that the unformed public roads need to be sorted too, no one else is allowed to block off a public access just because the bad element have been using it too. We have an alleyway next to us too, ripping off fence palings, stealing stuff, chucking rubbish, hiding behind the garage drinking beer, tagging, ...
I must get some shut eye before @BRADS wakes up :thumbsup:
A lot of these issues seem like they could be solved with a box of beer?
yeah or just not poaching.
A place I've been going into lately has areas where lots of people hunt but isn't technically legal in some places. The track goes in and out of doc and private but everyone still hunts the whole area because it's not exactly easy to tell where the boundaries are, way too much of a jungle in there to begin with.
Too true Sidney.
The whole "poaching" debate always turns into a debate from those of us who would generally deem scoring a wild venison without being caught on the wrong side of the fence as a little win for the hunter/gatherer vs the landowner mentality that views everything as theirs, including the public roads that run through their estates. I'm a "townie" to all you cockies out there. We work real hard for our kills. I know the odd farmer who's ok with a hunt on their place. The majority (family members included) will fob me and many hunters I know off. If you move in their circles and political sphere (National supporters) then that's a different story . . . .lol. It's not because we are untrustworthy etc that they fob us off, it's because they are greedy, red necks that want any resource they can possibly command to use to their advantage. Also, we're those working class boys from the town who need to be kept an eye on . . . .lest they forget who the master is . . .lol
Hahahaha . . . . I'm just kidding with ya . . . you know I love you rural types. . . . you're the backbone of the country!
Before you illiterate, myopic red necks get on my thoughts - I don't like dudes who disrespect other people livestock, equipment etc.
And the bits that are not in private ownership are owned by HM QE2 and chums.
That would be apart from the millions of acres of public land would it.
Dead right. In fact the QE2 thing appears to be a nice little way for some farmers to get others paying for fences, poison etc on their property while still having free reign over the so-called protected area.
Hell, I know two farmers who use the QE2 blocks as their own little hunting reserves. One has a deer farm near by a lets his so-called escapees breed up there so his "boys" can get so easy hunting in. What a joke.
Dead right. In fact the QE2 thing appears to be a nice little way for some farmers to get others paying for fences, poison etc on their property while still having free reign over the so-called protected area.
Hell, I know two farmers who use the QE2 blocks as their own little hunting reserves. One has a deer farm near by a lets his so-called escapees breed up there so his "boys" can get some easy hunting in. What a joke.
The fact that they put a covenant on the land doesnt mean they no longer own it, so I guess they can do what they want within the terms of the covenant. Kind of tough if you dont like that
My point, if you can't decipher it, is that they obviously still have authority over it whilst using other peoples money to look after it whilst using it as "they" see fit. Not all farmers will do this, "as they see fit" (read abuse). My point is about hypocrisy and double dipping. Their high moral ground is a farce at times. I was born in a poor man's bed and such is my lot. Many farmers are born in a bed that bestows heredity "rights". Or if you work real hard (no guarantee), kiss the right arse or marry the right person then you might get a piece of that action too.
I did Pengy. I don't think you did though.
He didn't have express permission this time.... Without that you can get nailed.
Flirting with forum and general moral ethics as usual. Poor drills there. Could really spare the personal comments IMHO.
Shame about one that go away @Dundee !!
I get a bit tired of the country vs townie argument. I think it's irrelevant. As Gadgetman alluded to, it's about respect for your neighbour/landowner/fellow NZer and working in/communicating with them. Regardless of whether we think cockies are on their moral high horses or not - they pull rank on their land and that's absolutely black and white to me. . No point having a go at them - how about you make an effort, build a relationship and be a solution tot he problem which is, essentially, lack of communication and fostering a relationship?
In regards to genuinely not knowing where DOC/Private boundaries are; and adding to the in depth comments already made, the courts will show some (minimal) discretion if you get sprung and there's no fence etc but that's purely legal and will be weighed and judged case by case. I think it comes down to ethics. If you're potentially going to be crossing, bordering or hunting in close proximity to a farm - go and see the bloody farmer and have a yarn. If you're not sure, don't shoot!? Easier said than done at times I know (first hand). Draw your line before you get in the heat of the moment. Or do what I do and hunt way the fckuck away from anyone's farm so as never to be tempted.
But seriously, ethics and morals need to rule here as that is the real law out in gods own when we're away from suburbia.
Shit I need a scotch now.
One that got away* - edit post isn't working admins.
So there is no case law stating that a fenced paddock isn't an enclosed yard, so there is no case law that covers this so can be challenged in court, not sure why you keep bringing up case law.
A structure isn't needed to complete burglary, I know this as I've charge a person for Burglary when they never entered any structure. Have a look at section 232(2) CA 1961.
The scenario you gave would just have one information for Burglary laid.
You had flaws regarding not being able to commit Burglary without a building or structure, people normally being charged with two offences and not being able to commit burglary on land.
Can someone poach this thread and put it out of its misery?
So you are having difficulty with how case law interprets and applies binding decisions..
An enclosed yard is a structure yes... ? If you follow through the statue you will find a theme... to suggest that a farmer's paddock would fall within the confines of an enclosed yard for the purposes of this statute would be laughable... go for your life... grist for the legal profession
If the offence of burglary is not complete on entering the yard, but is for the shed and the theft is not from the shed you are seriously suggesting a separate charge wouldn't be laid...? Not the case in my experience... I take the unstated point that the serious penalty charge effectively minimises the value and the effect of the lesser charge, but again the theft is a separate offence. And it clearly indicates intent for the purpose of the burglary charge where intent is required to be established.
A yard is not land... it is a confined space, limited in area surrounded by a secure structure, requiring some physical breach to enter...
You can continue this but the word obtuse comes to mind, and while I could be more so, for the sake of the onlookers I won't start being really pedantic. They would get very bored if I started talking about parliamentary intention and pulling dicta from case law...
Signing off.....
Across the road from us is a gully that everyone in Upper Hutt hunted over the last 50 years.When the owner died the new owner told everyone he would give the first poacher he caught a hiding.When he caught one he did that Everyone heard about it and he has had no trouble since.
PING..........Moderator. Edit facility still NBG Last night would only return a blank screen for editing, today telling me I am forbidden to post a and or edit........(Might be right perhaps?)