Is there anyone out there who is still concerned about beating Covid19?

Just wondering on this. Is anyone actually still concerned about this (or maybe never was)? Are there people out there on this forum who are still thinking that whatever we need to do over the next month or so will be worth the thought of not hunting for a short while longer? Is anyone concerned about the cost in human life and to the long term impacts on the economy if we don't get this right first time and now? Is anyone less concerned about what others are doing or getting and more about doing the right thing themselves personally? Is anyone worried more about drawing a line in the sand and not pushing the boundary to the very edge? Is anyone thinking more about other people's loved ones and the good of our dear country and less about a few small and short term personal gains? Is anyone thinking that maybe the government is so overwhelmed with decisions that need to be made quickly and as they arise, that they might get the odd thing wrong and that this is not some big conspiracy theory against hunters? Is anyone realistic and understands that policy people are not usually hunters and are learning as they go? Does anyone understand that our hunting organisations are working tirelessly behind the scenes for us and our time would be better spent supporting them rather than ranting on line? Does anyone think that maybe as much as we all REALLY REALLY love hunting and all it entails, that us getting out there ASAP might not be the biggest issue facing the country at the moment? Is there anyone who might be happy that someone else might be able to get out for a hunt and realise a dream, even if they cant for a bit longer? Is there anyone who might be happy to at least just get out and go for a local rabbit hunt with their kid, even though they might have to wait a whole two more weeks to hunt bull tahr in Westland?

Just wondering..........................I really hope there is.

The virus cannot be eliminated / eradicated no matter how much virtue is brought to any such discussion.

The NZ economy can be and has been trashed in futile pursuit of that foolish goal.

If you are old enough to have adult children, they will pay the price over years.

Your diatribe is mistaken and misdirected.

If I'm not mistaken, we might contain C19, but we won't wipe it out, which will mean it will flare up in places. Then we'll have to sort out our response to it.

So as a country we are likely to go from level 4 to level 3 then 2, and possibly back to 4 if necessary.

I doubt this will be over soon.

We will have to be patient, and keep the big picture in mind.

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Originally Posted by sightpicture

The virus cannot be eliminated / eradicated no matter how much virtue is brought to any such discussion.

The NZ economy can be and has been trashed in futile pursuit of that foolish goal.

If you are old enough to have adult children, they will pay the price over years.

Your diatribe is mistaken and misdirected.

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Thanks. I am fully aware of issues re its ongoing persistance and the massive issues around our econmy. I think that this in no way is a diatribe (fancy word for a rant - I'm not that illiterate) and more pondering things. It is meant less as a pondering on C19 and more as a pondering on human nature. For me this has been the take home message from all of this. I have been both inspired at times and also saddened at others. Beat it or not there is no doubt that many of our loved ones are currently alive because of what we have done so far. Maybe even ourselves!

The virus once it infects someone (and its incubation period is 4-7 days, overall between 2-14 days, sometimes as much as 21+ days) takes another 2-3 weeks to kill the - fortunately small - percentage of its victims where it turns lethal.

So what "we" did 4 weeks ago has pretty much nothing to do with many people currently being alive who would otherwise be dying or dead. The facts of biology and pathology simply do not support that narrative.

It may prove in the next few weeks that we have kept more people from dying than otherwise; but at the time of writing, that is a hope not a fact.

It is also a fact that as an island nation, had we shut our borders and quarantined inbound passengers properly many weeks ago as many of us said we should do, we would not be in our current - and in our future - economic mess.

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Does anyone understand that our hunting organisations are working tirelessly behind the scenes for us and our time would be better spent supporting them rather than ranting on line?

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Sorry, I call rubbish on that. They have done very little that has caused any change.

They did nothing to change the status in level 4

Labour said in lvl 3 it wouldnt allow hunting but went on to allow other more risky sports. They were called out on it, they had no choice but backtrack. The compromise so Labour wouldnt loose face but appease the hunters was to allow it on private land but not on public land (clearly the public have no say as to what goes on on public land which is another story). That had about 0.0001% influence from hunting organisations.

Before that, what did they do after the mosque attack? COLFO got stuck in, with very little support from any other organisations, the shooting community or hunting community. NZDA did diddly squat along with Pistol NZ etc.

They have a bit of a murmur every now and then which is the only indication these organisations are still alive but in my opinion, the support they have shown their members and standing up against govt and police is fuck all. Sorry.

So please remind me what are they tirelessly working behind the scenes on.

Not concerned about "beating covid-19, I more concerned about the economic events that will become evident in the next 2-4 months.

I think the number of actual fatlities from CV-19 will be far less than the number from the economic fall out.

I already know many people, my brother included who after the 5 weeks of "Lock Down" will not be returning to their jobs which 5 weeks ago was not even a thought in their heads!

Look at this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121...ding-to-a-poll

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Look at this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121...ding-to-a-poll

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Yeah, its on Stuff, thats why the govt just threw $50 million at the media, so they can keep publishing that sort of rot. The govts propaganda campaigns especially on TV have clearly had a huge success.

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Originally Posted by Mr Browning

Yeah, its on Stuff, thats why the govt just threw $50 million at the media, so they can keep publishing that sort of rot. The govts propaganda campaigns especially on TV have clearly had a huge success.

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Maybe, but anecdotally there does seem to be wide support for the lock down and the Gov's approach. Regardless of the source I would say that its close to the mark

This forum is a very narrow lens to speculate through.

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Originally Posted by Hiawatha

Just wondering on this. Is anyone actually still concerned about this (or maybe never was)? Are there people out there on this forum who are still thinking that whatever we need to do over the next month or so will be worth the thought of not hunting for a short while longer? Is anyone concerned about the cost in human life and to the long term impacts on the economy if we don't get this right first time and now? Is anyone less concerned about what others are doing or getting and more about doing the right thing themselves personally? Is anyone worried more about drawing a line in the sand and not pushing the boundary to the very edge? Is anyone thinking more about other people's loved ones and the good of our dear country and less about a few small and short term personal gains? Is anyone thinking that maybe the government is so overwhelmed with decisions that need to be made quickly and as they arise, that they might get the odd thing wrong and that this is not some big conspiracy theory against hunters? Is anyone realistic and understands that policy people are not usually hunters and are learning as they go? Does anyone understand that our hunting organisations are working tirelessly behind the scenes for us and our time would be better spent supporting them rather than ranting on line? Does anyone think that maybe as much as we all REALLY REALLY love hunting and all it entails, that us getting out there ASAP might not be the biggest issue facing the country at the moment? Is there anyone who might be happy that someone else might be able to get out for a hunt and realise a dream, even if they cant for a bit longer? Is there anyone who might be happy to at least just get out and go for a local rabbit hunt with their kid, even though they might have to wait a whole two more weeks to hunt bull tahr in Westland?

Just wondering..........................I really hope there is.

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I for one am and am growing more and more embarrassed and frustrated from some of the junk I have read from "hunters". Mainly Facebook pages but im sure their will be plenty of critters here aswell. Like a toddler packing a tantrum is how im seeing it. A toy he doesnt even use very much but has a melt down the moment its taken away. What are we talking 7 8 weeks of restrictions? Get a grip eh its not that bad . Im picking they have it all figured out got all the dots pinned together on their lounge wall beside their bookshelf full of flat earth comic books

Yeah, there was wide support for the earth being flat too.

& if this forum is such a very narrow lens then why have you looked through it 6,848 times? /rhetorical.

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Originally Posted by sightpicture

Yeah, there was wide support for the earth being flat too.

& if this forum is such a very narrow lens then why have you looked through it 6,848 times? /rhetorical.

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The forum its self and 99% of what i find on here is bloody brilliant. Good yarns educational and a good place to share/educate others im not moaning about the forum its self.The temporary ban yarns are useless and done to death im doing my best not to even read them so thats my bad. Sorry @sightpicture I realise that was rhetorical:D

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Originally Posted by sightpicture

The virus once it infects someone (and its incubation period is 4-7 days, overall between 2-14 days, sometimes as much as 21+ days) takes another 2-3 weeks to kill the - fortunately small - percentage of its victims where it turns lethal.

So what "we" did 4 weeks ago has pretty much nothing to do with many people currently being alive who would otherwise be dying or dead. The facts of biology and pathology simply do not support that narrative.

It may prove in the next few weeks that we have kept more people from dying than otherwise; but at the time of writing, that is a hope not a fact.

It is also a fact that as an island nation, had we shut our borders and quarantined inbound passengers properly many weeks ago as many of us said we should do, we would not be in our current - and in our future - economic mess.

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+1 This

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ers-from-china
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-51338899

Lets not forget we closed our borders AFTER the US and Australia. Just following Trump were we Sea Biscuit?

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Look at this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121...ding-to-a-poll

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@Tahr it will be interesting what people think in 6 months when they face huge pay cuts, redundancy and who knows what. Oh it's already happening. But yes so far great propaganda win.

your wasting you time with JWs

Personally, I think that people who believe we can eradicate the virus are just as delusional as those who think that closing borders earlier or tighter would have kept it out.

NZ might be an island, but believe me we are not cut off. Some of our defence force members are still going to other countries to assist with humanitarian missions. Flights still take off and land for repatriation of both our own citizens and tourists stranded here.

Medicine, and other urgent supplies not produced here continue to enter the country. All it takes for the virus to flare up again is a single pilot or air crew member, or a prostitute to visit a cargo ship.

Look at the history of viral pandemics. Subsequent waves of infection will almost certainly happen.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Maybe, but anecdotally there does seem to be wide support for the lock down and the Gov's approach. Regardless of the source I would say that its close to the mark

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As I said, the propaganda machine has had good success. When you are bombed constantly with Covid-19 announcements of when you can drive your car, when you leave your house, when you can do this that and the other thing and reinforced with "it will save lives" or "it will make NZ safer" and similar. Then that is what everyone believes after a while.

The amount of people who keep on saying we should lock down for another 4 weeks to save lives, and "people above businesses" and how quick they are to claim business is irrelevant to the economy is amazing. They seem to have no idea where their money comes from.

You quiz them about it, and they have no answer, no solution, dont even know why they think the way they do, they just dont know. What is clear is how brain washed they have become. They have no thoughts of their own, just know what is drilled into them.

I fully believe that figure is close to the mark as you say, and I find that sad. Because that to me shows me the percentage of people brain washed (Im not saying 80% are, just a good percentage).

There seems to be so many gullible people in NZ who believe anything, it is little wonder NZ looses millions of dollars to scammers each year. It honestly saddens me. I reinforce with my customers every other week to watch out and educate them to be wiser and more savvy on the internet, I wish more people in general were educated and savvy in life and were not just followers and so easily led.

My opinion only.

A narrow lens? Hmmm, maybe people here a just more grounded and see a bit more clearly through the bs than the average person. A little more individual and dont posses the pack mentality like sheep necessarily in general. I dont know. Just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by ebf

Personally, I think that people who believe we can eradicate the virus are just as delusional as those who think that closing borders earlier or tighter would have kept it out..

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No I don't it's just a comment aimed at the self righteous that think we are the best in the world.

From all the information I have read it (covid 19) was out and about some time last October, places like NY were probably already in trouble by January. Who knows when the first cases made it here.

Quarantining everyone who stepped across the boarder would have helped contain the problem or limit it somewhat. But in the long term...

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Look at this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121...ding-to-a-poll

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These results need to be divided into two groups

Group one... all those who have had to work through the crisis or have lost their jobs with little chance of reemployment

Group two... all those who have remained at home on a good portion of their wages and have a job to return to.

It would also be good to understand what % of the above makes up the total count.

A poll on stuff I bet that's accurate

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Originally Posted by northdude

A poll on stuff I bet that's accurate

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Their call list is probably financial supporters

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Originally Posted by northdude

A poll on stuff I bet that's accurate

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So do you think that a majority of NZ's don't support the lock down?

Regardless of it being published on Stuff, I think that the poll is on the mark.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

No I don't it's just a comment aimed at the self righteous that think we are the best in the world.

From all the information I have read it (covid 19) was out and about some time last October, places like NY were probably already in trouble by January. Who knows when the first cases made it here.

Quarantining everyone who stepped across the boarder would have helped contain the problem or limit it somewhat. But in the long term...

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For sure, it was hitting the US when the democrats are trying to tear the arse out of Trump with impeaching him. He tried to close the borders, but the democrats all called him a racist for it and wouldnt support it. And continued to promote massive get togethers in the US to celebrate the Chinese New Year and such. How do you even begin to deal with people of power to disregard anything the leader of the country says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAEfSHeH4Lc

Good lord, the guy has the hide of a buffalo to deal with the shit thrown at him.

Simply look at the ratio of business owners versus employees . It is about 520000 businesses for 2.2 million employes.
Add on 1.2 millions retirees to the 2.2 million . That is 3.4 million people . Versus 520000. That is a ratio of 1 business owner for 6.5
people.
In pourcentage: that is 15% of business owners versus 85% of employees plus retirees.
I am not sure there are many business owners enjoying having their business closed at the moment.they could be represented in blue.
Among the retirée there are probably some ex business owners who are a bit worried about the economic situation.But maybe most would be concerned by catching the covid 19 . And they are still getting paid their little pension.(red proportion)
And not every employees is happy to be in lock down, specially for those who are going or already lost their job, but a lot of employees are not too worried about the situation because so far they have received the govt subsidies. ( red proportion)

So the survey could really well represent the positions of the different layers of social classes.

Now imagine , if we were getting back in confinement at level 4 in 6 months time , but then the govt was saying sorry, we have to cut pensions in half and we have no more money for the subsidies for businesses nor employees during the confinement. How do you think the polls would turn out to be like?

Well when I've been out in real life in my community talking to real people I haven't met anyone that agrees with it but youd know I guess I'm only talking to real people face to face did you take part in the survey do you know anyone that took part in it can you verify that every answer was entered correctly oh hold on its honest and transparent they said my bad

Here's how stupid it gets when I go back to work I have to wipe the customers car down before and after touching/working on it I bet you going to say yep that's going to make nz safer but then I can go to a supermarket and pick stuff up that probably 5 other people have touched before me well thought out isnt it

Government told people a porky pie about the virus. Stay at home for two weeks, blah blah, flatten the curve, eradicate it and then it's all done.

And it's not, it's a virus, it's never realistically going away. If it doesn't mutate much it will stand a chance of dying out some through herd immunity. If it mutates more quickly it will likely weaken with time, in fact one mutation found in India already isn't any worse than the regular cold.

Now I know government is trying to keep the hype up but the data from NYC and Italy shows for the average younger healthy person your chances of dying from it are about zero. A New York City study of 5700 people just published yesterday is revealing.

I have no doubt that the stuff poll will closely represent the feelings of people across the nation with accuracy but I am very firmly in the dark blue (strongly disapprove) group at the top. We should have done a lot more and a lot sooner. The ineptitude with which this countries government has handled the situation has cost sixteen New Zealanders their lives and that lays squarely at their feet. There are now five things in the last year that I am furious with the CoL government about and will remain unforgiving over for the remainder of my days.
1. Their feigned empathy for political purposes with the Muslim community over the Mosque killings.
2. Their total abrogation of due democratic process and the enforced removal of privately owned property from a large section of the community.
3. Their continued spreading of mass hysteria causing the nationwide cancelling of the 2019 acknowledgement and commemoration of the services of our veterans and our war dead.
4. Their late and weak response to Covid 19.
5. Their repeated disrespecting of the services of our veterans and our war dead through the nationwide cancellation of the 2020 ANZAC services.

And don’t get me started on the long list of over promising and under delivering and the blatant vote buying sucking up to vocal minorities. I have never been one to accept mediocrity and if there was a way to immediately unsubscribe to being governed by this inept lot then I would have hit that button twelve months ago.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Look at this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121...ding-to-a-poll

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I don't doubt that poll is correct for the very reasons @Friwi & others have pointed out

I for one would be very interested to see the exact same poll done 3 more times 2-3 months apart

There is no doubt in my mind there will be a completely different result, economic reality is going to bite hard

I doubt very much if those polls were done the results would be publicised as much

It would appear that some have not read my initial post or perhaps read the first three words and then assumed the rest. To confirm:

- I did not say I thought we could completely remove C19 from NZ
- I did not make a statement about whether I thought the economic cost was worth it. I suggested that given we are doing this like it or agree with it or not, perhaps we want to get the best from it that we can before we re open our doors. I am in no doubt that the pain will be felt by many for years to come. Myself included.
- I did not say I wholeheartedly endorse every decision made through this period by the government or the timing around some decisions. I talked about us working together and not making our own minds up to join in a spot of cat herding based on our own personal views
- I did wonder how many people were prepared to work together and take the high moral ground when it comes to missing out on a bit of hunting or whatever for a short period and worry less about what others were or weren't getting
- I did ask the question about how many people were looking for what they could do and not what they couldn't. Glass half full or glass half empty.

For me I think this whole event has also been a real reflection of overall human nature and people's attitudes to life and others. There is no doubt that the governments response and management of this crisis has been a massive exercise in social engineering.

I have no beef with anyone and respect your right to have a view. I have however been saddened by the personal abusive type rants I have read occasionally over the past three or so weeks. We are all on the same team here. Have a good ground hog day people ;)

"puts hand up"...read first line and became bored

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

"puts hand up"...read first line and became bored

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In yet here you are....... still reading the thread...................:D:thumbsup: Yeah lets get back to talking about hunting and shooting and looking forward to getting back out there

Sorry, I thought this was a genuine question but by the first post I see you are pushing your agenda so byebye

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Originally Posted by Hiawatha

In yet here you are....... still reading the thread...................:D:thumbsup: Yeah lets get back to talking about hunting and shooting and looking forward to getting back out there

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630 opened the page and stuff all responded

I read this article this morning which is written by someone with expertise and from outside NZ (Devi Sridhar is chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh). Worth a look if you can be bothered and are actually interested in reading another view :D
"Crunching the coronavirus curve is better than flattening it, as New Zealand is showing"
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...OdRemPVALiOAPw

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Maybe, but anecdotally there does seem to be wide support for the lock down and the Gov's approach. Regardless of the source I would say that its close to the mark

This forum is a very narrow lens to speculate through.

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Using stuff as a source of news would indicate a preference, participating in a poll on Stuff would be another run through the drafting race, so while I agree this site can be somewhat myopic I think a stuff poll could be seen in a similar light. Not that it matters though as a poll today cant predict or change whats coming. Today many are doing ok, enjoying some enforced time off, still have a few dollars. But the Govt check book is rapidly approaching the last leaf. Robinson claims debt can run up to 50% ( god help us) of GDP but the candle is burning from both ends, as fast as he is handing out money our GDP is shrinking so this support will come to grinding halt. The mood of the voters will be interesting come election time.

Dont worry a poll will come out in stuff sooner the date declaring the pm to be the most popular person in the world if you can wait a few minutes I can draw one up now what would you like it to say

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Originally Posted by mikee

Not concerned about "beating covid-19, I more concerned about the economic events that will become evident in the next 2-4 months.

I think the number of actual fatlities from CV-19 will be far less than the number from the economic fall out.

I already know many people, my brother included who after the 5 weeks of "Lock Down" will not be returning to their jobs which 5 weeks ago was not even a thought in their heads!

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Yesterday was watching a COVID-19 feature including an interview from Sweden. Their economy is moving on, they chose to keep going despite 1000+ deaths, only the most vulnerable in lockdown. The NZ reporter was incredulous, but the Swede cut him off, "We need our economy to have our health service".

About the stress effect, across the other side of the world (from the Economist) New York is seeing other effects than just COVID-19:

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