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Thread: Bolt action 300BLK/308 subsonic

  1. #1
    MB
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    Bolt action 300BLK/308 subsonic

    You know when you have an itch for a gun that won't go away, well, that's where I'm at with a bolt action in either 300BLK or 308 subsonic. There's been a few threads about this, some started by me, so apologies if this is getting boring. I want a quiet gun for shooting on private land to take goats at up to 100 metres. Unfortunately, I don't reload.

    308 - no suitable factory ammo that I can find in NZ; standard rifle twist rates too slow to stabilise heavy subsonic projectiles to the extent that they may take out the suppressor as they leave the barrel?

    300BLK - Hornady and Winchester have just started producing subsonic rounds which are designed for hunting, i.e. projectile expands at subsonic velocities on hitting animal. Not sure on NZ availability yet. There are a few other options out there as well. As for rifles:

    *Ruger Ranch rifle - has magazine issues (although new model will take AR magazine); stock is too soft and bends. From what I've read, not a bad rifle, but it would be nice to buy something off the shelf that works without needing immediate attention.

    *Blackout Remington 700 - heavy; seems to have multiple problems and now that Remington have folded, I'm even more wary.

    *Mossberg MVP Patrol (Gun City) - don't really know anything about this one, not keen on the full barrel silencer.

    *Tikka T3X (Gun City) - don't really know anything about this one either, not keen on the full barrel silencer. Not a factory gun I assume? Who would have done the modification?

    *CZ 527 - new, don't know much yet. Hasn't arrived in NZ as far as I can tell.


    So, what to do? Forget all this madness? Any other thoughts?

  2. #2
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    bergara 44 pigger just need to thread it and fit a dpt so you can add extra baffles or shorten it with less baffles.nice and short with a decent punch and find a pistol shooter who reloads 44 mag and use cast lead projectiles.fitted with a 1.5 x 4 scope or similar would be a handy bush rifle also.
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  3. #3
    Member stug's Avatar
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    @shooternz on here makes 151gr cast HP projectiles that work well at subsonic speeds out of ordinary 308 barrels. They will expand and kill at subsonic velocities.

    If you already have a 308 buying reloading gear will be cheaper than a new rifle.
    tikka and MB like this.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by berg243 View Post
    bergara 44 pigger just need to thread it and fit a dpt so you can add extra baffles or shorten it with less baffles.nice and short with a decent punch and find a pistol shooter who reloads 44 mag and use cast lead projectiles.fitted with a 1.5 x 4 scope or similar would be a handy bush rifle also.
    i agree, i have a rossi 44 mag l/a that shoots out 300 grain subs. yep its not long range and the trajectory drop is awful compared to say my 7mm RM. but the energy at target is bloody awesome.
    at the end of the day its foot pounds of energy (or some weird metric crap) that does the damage, a big heavy projectile at 1000 fps is devastating (ask dirty harry)
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  5. #5
    Member rossi.45's Avatar
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    consider 357mag/38 special & 44mag/44 special . . . use the magnum cartridge or the Specials which are already going at subsonic speed

    1-10 twist .308 barrels will work up to 200grns with subs

    go for the cartridge that throws the widest and heaviest bullet, consider expansion a luxury that your probably not going to get all the time, plan on not getting it . . . my 2c
    Last edited by rossi.45; 10-05-2018 at 01:40 PM.
    MB and Nugget connaisseur like this.
    without a picture . .. it never happened !

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    For me I would only consider a 300 blackout if you reload or can get someone to reload for you to the the best out of it.
    I reload for a couple of mates using the heavy barreled Rem 700 300 blackout, they are running 208gr A-Max’s and 151gr HP for lifestyle blocks. Head shoot woollies and deer out too 80m free hand no problem.
    A single shot 300 blackout are on TM from time to time.

    Other calibers like 44mag, 308win etc would be easier to on sell if subsonic hunting isn’t your thing or run them with standard high power loads.
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    as soon as money allows I will be sourcing a 500s&w single shot. 500gr hornady load supersonic out of 8.5 inch barrel has 1505 ftlbs at 100 yards. subsonic the 500gr should have over 900ftlbs at 100m enough power and penetration and with no expansion leaving a half inch hole .
    viper, rossi.45, MB and 1 others like this.

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    Member rossi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by berg243 View Post
    as soon as money allows I will be sourcing a 500s&w single shot. 500gr hornady load supersonic out of 8.5 inch barrel has 1505 ftlbs at 100 yards. subsonic the 500gr should have over 900ftlbs at 100m enough power and penetration and with no expansion leaving a half inch hole .
    seriously looking forward to seeing this . . . .
    without a picture . .. it never happened !

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    The best solution would be 44mag, 45-70 or 500sw. In a single shot. With the last 2 making use of heavy cast pills or even XTP style copper pills to expand at lower velocity have more mass and larger diameter already compared to 30cal options. It would be worth while getting into reloading to make the best use of subsonic no matter what you go with. Even a lee loader if you go 308 or 44mag, not sure if they have 300blk or the others.

    I have done some messing around with subsonic in 308 and trail boss. No other powders.
    I would try to go 300 BLK simply because you will have less case volume issues that 308 has. I doubt this will be an issue with heavy 200+ gr projectiles

    If you really are set on 30cal here is my semi limited findings.

    90gr XTP projectile pistol projectile with the idea it will expand down below subsonic velocity. you will be well below 50% case capacity to get it subsonic. So thats a no go. But works very well on top of a case 3/4+ full of Trail boss on goats. Quiet and very low recoil. Maybe a different powder and some filler material? I don't know anything about fillers and what I can find online contradicts its self all over the show so decided to not mess around with it.
    Alos cant feed in my rifle - jams against the side. Zastava controlled feed Mauser 98 style action so double stack double feed. Possibly work something single stack push feed that just slides in like a Tikka.

    125gr SST and Nosler BT. Similar to the XTP. I use this on top of a case full of TB. Works okay on goats I use this for inside 100m head and neck shooting. Works well enough in the front shoulder too but very few are Dead Right There. Have only had one run it was when I first started experimenting made it 10m before I gave it a 2nd.
    Pros are it feeds from my rifle.

    150Gr cast Hallow points as mentioned above by stug. Works much better on chest shots even at subsonic velocities. Because of the blunt nose does not feed in my rifle either, might work in a push feed. Cons. From what I have found reading other subsonic advice. After firing lead its not recommended to shoot copper projectiles down the barrel, so you cant have a standard high velocity load ready to go to shoot a deer or something at longer range. They are copper gas checked so you could drive them at about 1800fps or so if you wanted that bit of extra punch if don't want it purely as a subsonic rifle.

    200 or 220Gr cast flat nose. Much the same as the 150gr except not gas checked. Even better on animals at subsonic velocities from my sample size of 4 goats. Again I have to single feed as they don't feed from the mag.

    208 amax, could be worth a try. No experience but it would feed in my rifle and I would be limiting myself to Head and neck shots only as I doubt it will expand on chest shots.

    For rifles.
    Have a look at Model 7, Savage, but I think the best would be the Howa mini. That comes in 300blk with 10 round mag, nice and handy rifle.

    EDIT: As for groupings. I have a 1:12 twist a barrel and the best at 50m was the 220gr cast flat nose grouping 1". The others varied around 1.5 to 2.5 the worst being the 125 BT. Even though the 220gr pill had the worst score on the stability calculator.
    Last edited by Nugget connaisseur; 10-05-2018 at 07:08 PM.
    dogmatix, tikka and MB like this.

  10. #10
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Bigger pistol bullets work well but with bigger diameter comes more noise...

    The 450 Bushmaster is pretty impressive sub sonic, it is already as big or bigger than a sub 308 fully expanded...

    Purpose built sub projectiles are the way forward in all calibre sizes but the are pretty spendy & you need a fast twist to get them to work well being heavy & long...

    You can put a 30 cal 200+ projectile right through an animal end to end, if it doesn't hit anything substantial they will squawk/bleat & walk away or just stand there thinking WTF was that...frustrating as all hell....

  11. #11
    MB
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    Thanks for those replies. All read and digested!

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    I know reloading sounds very daunting and expensive to get into - it doesn’t have to be either. Get one of the lee classic loader kits in .308, and other than the cartridge components you’re away. This is how I got into reloading, good fun, cheap and not a huge learning curve either.
    MB likes this.
    More meplat, more better.

  13. #13
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    go cheap....7.62x39mm norinco cut off short suppressor added, get someone to load 151grn cast from shootersnz with something like 6grns trail boss behind it and go and have some fun. you have cheap option if animal is bit further away,just slip in a supersonic round. as Kiwi Greg has said,you got to hit vital bits or it will pencil through. you could use load at around 2000fps and it will still be quiet not subsonic quiet but still very mild and projectile preformance will be soo much more consistant and deadly. even using supersonic factory loads this combo wont be that noisy and will be a hell of a lot cheaper to run than the other two.
    Tommy and MB like this.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg View Post
    Bigger pistol bullets work well but with bigger diameter comes more noise...

    The 450 Bushmaster is pretty impressive sub sonic, it is already as big or bigger than a sub 308 fully expanded...
    450 bushmaster on a no4 303 action?

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    For the cost of the exercice you will probably got a ruger American in 450 BM?
    Steve123 likes this.

 

 

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