Is buying 69 firearms from GunCity in 18 months signs of an addiction ?

Or signs of something else ?

Quote:

---

Peter James Edwards purchased 74 firearms, including Ruger .22 rifles, and modified them to make smaller weapons to sell to criminals.
An unemployed Auckland man spent $50,000 on firearms then sold them to gang members and other criminals.

Peter James Edwards purchased 74 rifles and shotguns in just 18 months, then "pimped" the weapons by cutting down the barrel or stock and adding pistol grips and silencers.

The pistol-sized firearms, which are easily carried and concealed, are highly prized in the criminal fraternity and the case has highlighted how easily guns can fall into the wrong hands.

Yesterday, Edwards, 58, pleaded guilty in the Waitakere District Court to supplying firearms to unlicensed individuals, supplying a pistol and supplying methamphetamine. He was remanded in custody and will be sentenced on July 1.

Critics say firearm record-keeping in New Zealand is poor after the system of licensing each firearm was abandoned in 1982 in favour of registering gun owners instead.

The result is that the police have no idea how many guns - legal or illegal - there are in the country or how many stolen or modified guns are in circulation.

Edwards held an A-category firearms licence and bought 69 firearms from Gun City stores in Auckland and Christchurch between May 2012 and last December.

He spent $50,000 on firearms alone but also bought 16,000 rounds of ammunition, pistol grips, folding stocks and silencers.

He modified the firearms in his shed, often removing the serial numbers, then sold them to criminals including patched members of the Head Hunters who are not able to legally purchase weapons.

---

69 in 19 months from GC = 3.5 firearms each and every month :P I assume he was buying in person rather than online and visiting the AO every month ???. But these minor details are missing.

Bloody meth morons.

Whilst I appreciate that Gun City is in the business of selling firearms to people that hold a firearms license, I struggle to understand how the volume of transactions with one individual would not raise questions a whole lot sooner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rushy

Whilst I appreciate that Gun City is in the business of selling firearms to people that hold a firearms license, I struggle to understand how the volume of transactions with one individual would not raise questions a whole lot sooner.

---

BIG +1 Rushy....that is really slack from GC, surely they would have an electronic book keeping system with the volume of firearms they sell?........I know the smaller stores just have a book on the counter to record FAL details, but GC!!!!!!!!!

Have never brought new from store, do they take down your details or just view your licence?

In wairoa one shop when buying ammo they scan the bar code anothe he just looks at it. In H&F Naiper the details are put in a book on the bench.

like rushy Im intrigued too that such a high volume of sales to one individual went unnoticed.Ive purchased from guncity and more than once had my details recorded for their records.surely a simple computerised flag could be raised signalling further action could be warranted

I think all gun shops are required to record buyers firearms lisence details. Its not a new thing. The AO comes around and checks them on occasions.

I'm amazed he managed to get served that many times, nobody wanted to know me yesterday.

Seriously though, someone must have noticed an unusual volume. I've worked in electronics retail before and certain buying patterns stand out as illegitimate.

When I bought my rifles, the details have gone into a hand written book, I assume GC keep a record too, ammo sales have only ever been a visual.

For it to work effectively you would need a database that all stores enter details of the purchaser into otherwise if he's making that much of guns you would just drive around the country buying two-3 from each shop.

Even if he bought them from different stores, if someone comes into your shop even once every 8 weeks you remember them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by square1

Even if he bought them from different stores, if someone comes into your shop even once every 8 weeks you remember them.

---

Once every 8 weeks is nothing.
Serious Shooters and Reloaders know me pretty well. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kscott

Or signs of something else ?.........69 in 19 months from GC = 3.5 firearms each and every month :P I assume he was buying in person rather than online and visiting the AO every month ???. But these minor details are missing.

Bloody meth morons.

---

There is no requirement for fire arms retailers to monitor sales, only sight the buyer's fire arms licence and if satisfied, record the details in their register.

I am puzzled however, as to why you say, "and visiting the AO every month.." as that is not necessary when buying a A cats as this chap was. (Might be for other cats , but I plead ignorance there :>)

"Speaking from Europe last night, Gun City owner David Tipple said his stores sold tens of thousands of firearms a year and it was not unusual for customers to buy a large number.

So 69 firearms bought by one person over 18 months might not have immediately raised any concerns, he said.

Mr Tipple acknowledged, however, that staff did keep an eye out for any suspicious behaviour.

"We work very closely with the police on a daily basis ... and we are known by the police to support [reporting] unusual activities."


Yup, I believe you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

There is no requirement for fire arms retailers to monitor sales, only sight the buyer's fire arms licence and if satisfied, record the details in their register.

I am puzzled however, as to why you say, "and visiting the AO every month.." as that is not necessary when buying a A cats as this chap was. (Might be for other cats , but I plead ignorance there :>)

---

He was also buying from the Chch store, so would have needed AO to complete postal mail/order purchase form.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dogmatix

He was also buying from the Chch store, so would have needed AO to complete postal mail/order purchase form.

---

Unless his "business " took him there on occasion of course and he purchased over the counter ?? Probably claimed the fares and accommodation as a business expense.

I reckon what he has done any one could do probably travel length of NZ once with a trailer and buy hundreds no questions asked .. There's not really an answer is there ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nibblet

Have never brought new from store, do they take down your details or just view your licence?

---

In my experience the seller has always recorded full details of the sale in a register.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

There is no requirement for fire arms retailers to monitor sales, only sight the buyer's fire arms licence and if satisfied, record the details in their register.

I am puzzled however, as to why you say, "and visiting the AO every month.." as that is not necessary when buying a A cats as this chap was. (Might be for other cats , but I plead ignorance there :>)

---

Only if he as buying via mail order, then the required signed form, signed by either local Police or AO, depending on where he lived.

All my purchases have been written into the shops' register book. But 3 guns a month for a year and a half :ORLY:

Well it's not illegal to purchase 3 and a half guns a month. I don't want retailers thinking I'm fishy if I buy 1000 rounds of ammo or something (but but but it's unusual!!!!) and reporting me to the police. Obviously this guy was up to something, but what he was doing was illegal and now he's getting fucked in accordance with the law, so good.

and the 74 firearms along with 16,000 rounds of ammo are out there somewhere

This might end up causing other new law change. So easy to do and now there are 100's more guns in unknown hands. Police spent last year wasting resources going on about pistol grips on AR's (when there was no real problem) when they should be focusing on how easy it is for large quantities of firearms ending up in the wrong hands.

Hopefully the judge gives him a harsh sentence.

in this country, most likely Home detention

+1 @Rushy
Guncity (and most other retailers) record your details manually in a book when you purchase new or second hand which IMHO is out of date in this day and age, whislt reliable it doesn't automatically tally/check against recent...or not so recent purchases and only serves as a point of reference. Buy large amounts of ammo is understandable but that's piss poor awareness from staff as far as the firearms go. One can only assume commission and sales took first place to safety or maybe asking some questions?

As I have a dealers licence , I was contacted about this a few weeks back , they wanted details of sales between certain months , and yes they where looking into a A cat holder on selling firearms to criminals/ un-licenced people .
It will be used as push for law changes , its that simple , why because they can , once again , we the lawful will mainly be effected , ie with more restrictive laws etc , will the law breakers basically get away with it .
Its about time the Police/GovT , realise WE are not the problem , the crims are , its real simple , just have harsh sentence for using a firearm in the commission of a crime , double or triple the sentence , ie IF robbery is 10yrs , then if you use a firearm then its now 30yrs minimum .
Laws banning stuff , does not work , penilites DO , and that would leave US with FREEDOM , Opps , that makes TOO much sense , and would work ,

Firearms and their use is NOT the problem , its the miss use of them , and wether thats crims or who ever , give them a super harsh sentence , simple , the crims would fo back to axes , bows and knives etc .

Look at how the GovT stuffed the legal highs UP , its their JOB , and they cannot get it right , funny that , IF you or I stuffed UP at work , we get sacked , not so for are brillant GovT / MPs etc .

Due to this , we will have more very porrly formed laws put into place , YET again , it seems we NEVER learn .

ME , I would just like some , well thought out logical laws , and they donot have to be super complex , Its enough to make Spocks head explode at the moment , sorry Spock .

Later Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dogmatix

He was also buying from the Chch store, so would have needed AO to complete postal mail/order purchase form.

---

Ahh..........thanks, I had overlooked the mention of the Christchurch store. However, I have purchased product from the ChCh store not listed at Auckland and they have delivered to their Auckland store where I have turned up, flashed the FAL and collected the goodies without any need to call upon Constable Plod."

I imagine that this particular "boot scraping" would not ever want to be anywhere near a FAO.

Oh............um was that issue with the Auckland store being robbed under strange circumstances ever clarified and the circumstances made public for us poor punters to see?

The way I look at it, the dude is a meth head, so how is knowing what he potentially has, going to affect his course of action? A gun registry didn't stop Jenner or Maybee, why should people be led to believe it will stop a P freak, who only think in the short term to buy another hit. And with the serial# ground off all the guns...good luck trying to trace the most garden variety semi auto .22.

Years ago at a round of hearings on the arms act amendments, I backed up my written submission with a verbal one to the sub-committee wich included MPs Marks and the late Horamia. I told them they were wasting resources trying to impose further restrictions on licenced firearms usage when they already know where the real unlicensed stuff is and they should be just going after it instead of persecuting legitimate users. Why aren't they just raiding the shit out of every gang HQ and known habitat and just keep digging and ripping out walls and floors until they have the lot...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ishoot10s

Years ago at a round of hearings on the arms act amendments, I backed up my written submission with a verbal one to the sub-committee wich included MPs Marks and the late Horamia. I told them they were wasting resources trying to impose further restrictions on licenced firearms usage when they already know where the real unlicensed stuff is and they should be just going after it instead of persecuting legitimate users. Why aren't they just raiding the shit out of every gang HQ and known habitat and just keep digging and ripping out walls and floors until they have the lot...

---

Because that would make sense. Only thing is "tough laws" make people and parties look better and sustain votes better in the long term.


Sent from my Browning

Having a centralised registry of firearms, owners and addresses would be piss easy to set up these days.


Sent from my Browning

You donot need to raid them to stop firearm miss use , simply punish firearm miss use harshly .
By all means raid them to seize drugs & take the ill gotten gains OFF them & imprison them etc .that should be the main aims of raids , seizing illegal firearms can just be a nice un-intended consceqenece .

To me the easiest & most elegant solution , is the one , I out lined , simply multiply the std sentence by a factor or 2,3 or 4x , so if robbery is 10yrs say , with a firearm its say 40yrs , or if murder is say 15yrs , its now 60yrs , or if thats too DIFFICULT , and you need to make it simplier for Judges & Lawers, as maybe they cannot do the maths or own/use a calculator , THEN just convert it to a std LIFE sentence ( ie real life , ie never to be released , and imprisoned for ever until their die in place ) .

So in short , JUST make it LIFE for using a firearm in the commission of a crime .

And when it gets too hard because we the counrty cannot afford IT , 2 options , either export them to Indo & pay them to hold them , or bring in the death penility , and sell that as not the GovT getting harsh or dacronian , but as a simple cost saving measure/budget in true GoVt style , that would work , as it makes bean counter sense .

Lets simply make people accountable for their actions , and rewarded approperiatly ( punished ) , Opps , I know the Lawers wont like that , do them out of a lot of earnings .
And lets stop punishing good people for the acts of a few wrong ins , opps , I better stop , now as I seem to be making sense again .

Later Chris

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hamsav

Your forgetting one thing .....the agenda is to disarm the people, crims or otherwise, and while you and I can see that further legislation ( applied to the wrong sector of the community ) is going to do nothing to stop crims , but as I say that aint the end goal.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChrisF

You donot need to raid them to stop firearm miss use , simply puish firearm miss use harshly .
By all means raid them to seize drugs & take the ill gotten gains OFF them & imprison them etc .

To me the easiest & most elegant solution , is the one , I out lined , simply multiply the std sentence by a factor or 2,3 or 4x , so if robbery is 10yrs say , with a firearm its say 40yrs , or if murder is say 15yrs , its now 60yrs , or if thats too DIFFICULT , and you need to make it simplier for Judges & Lawers, as maybe they cannot do the maths or own/use a calculator , THEN just convert it to a std LIFE sentence ( ie real life , ie never to be released , and imprisoned for ever until their die in place ) .

So in short , JUST make it LIFE for using a firearm in the commission of a crime .

And when it gets too hard because we the counrty cannot afford IT , 2 options , either export them to Indo & pay them to hold them , or bring in the death penility , and sell that as not the GovT getting harsh or dacronian , but as a simple cost saving measure/budget in true GoVt style , that would work , as it makes bean counter sense .

Lets simply make people accountable for their actions , and rewarded approperiatly ( punished ) , Opps , I know the Lawers wont like that , do them out of a lot of earnings .
And lets stop punishing good people for the acts of a few wrong ins , opps , I better stop , now as I seem to be making sense again .

Later Chris

---

I don't think the agenda is to disarm people in NZ. That's a conspiracists view and a bit extreme. Good management and robust systems can prevent a lot of this and preserve the longevity of good citizens being able to own and use firearms in NZ.

Chris - what you say is good and I agree but in nz that is exceedingly expensive and a bit idealistic. Not playing devils advocate but finding good management in the early stages ie. a central registry, would prevent a good chunk of this stuff at no real inconvenience to us as law abiding citizens. Slamming the real crims does need to be stepped up to a degree though so I'm not at all disagreeing. Prevention is a great medicine.


Sent from my Browning

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hamsav

pretty much what we had prior to 82 , and all without computers, Im not that keen . The 1st step in disarmament is to find out where all the guns are , and I don't believe that it would help reduce gun crime .... crims don't register guns , and I wouldn't want to see the private sale of guns restricted or made difficult ( coz then people wouldn't bother ). I could almost accept a system similar to the private sale of cars , where you do what you want and just advise the relevant authorities later

---

It wouldn't restrict or make anything more difficult at all? Filling out another few words at the gun shop takes a good 45 seconds...or they do it for you... it's not restricting anything....it would however pick up when one man buys sixty fuckin nine firearms and alert someone.

Disarmament...really? This isn't North Korea. Whether you're left or right I don't think any government in the forseeable future would drive that home at all - seems out of touch to be quite honest...we are talking New Zealand here...

And private sale - same as a car is a good idea yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jord

Having a centralised registry of firearms, owners and addresses would be piss easy to set up these days.


Sent from my Browning

---

Your kidding right? The police struggle to maintain accurate records of MSSA ownership, how will they fare trying to do the same with everything?

Who the fuck is going to pay for it. Look at Canada's registry. What do you think it's possibly going to achieve? Compliance will be hilariously low, particularly amongst criminals

At least they will know who the honest people are

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jord

Having a centralised registry of firearms, owners and addresses would be piss easy to set up these days.


Sent from my Browning

---

No so, do you realise that Canada very recently scraped one as it was unworkable-even after throwing unlimited $ at it

The point everyone seems to be missing is that the guy was caught and has been convicted and will be sentenced, the system works as is

Model it of our car ownership system...that works fine. VIN/rego, name address. It shouldn't get to that stage though. That's 69 firearms unaccounted for and that's a huge failing.


Sent from my Browning

Good shit hamsav. There are exceptions always, I just think the system needs a wee tidy up to at least try and prevent some of the extreme cases from happening. It's a minor inconvenience to us normal folk really.


Sent from my Browning