Thread: Desirable features of an all round NZ hunting rifle

Originally Posted by Bagheera

The drawback of both weapons, specially the .222 is the cartridge. A TRUE all rounder needs to be useable by truly mediocre stalkers and shooters, with good success. That’s why i suggested the 3006.

Ehhh???!

If you're shit at shooting, you probably shouldn't do it at animals...

If your groups look like buckshot, then probably limit yourself to actually using buckshot.

Originally Posted by mimms2

Ehhh???!

If you're shit at shooting, you probably shouldn't do it at animals...

If your groups look like buckshot, then probably limit yourself to actually using buckshot.

Mediocre shooting will always produce mediocre results. Add more recoil and the results become dreadful. The only fix for mediocre shooting is practice on targets, not animals. One reason I mourn the demise of 4P shooting in NZ. Putting 5 shots in a tiny group prone of a bipod tells you nothing about how well you can shoot even from sitting let alone standing. Actually shooting the positions does. Far back in this thread I suggested that the ability of the hunter to learn to shoot the rifle well was an important attribute for any rifle. That appears to have been lost along the way.
Regards Grandpamac. Resident curmudgoen and H.O.F.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Mediocre shooting will always produce mediocre results. Add more recoil and the results become dreadful. The only fix for mediocre shooting is practice on targets, not animals. One reason I mourn the demise of 4P shooting in NZ. Putting 5 shots in a tiny group prone of a bipod tells you nothing about how well you can shoot even from sitting let alone standing. Actually shooting the positions does. Far back in this thread I suggested that the ability of the hunter to learn to shoot the rifle well was an important attribute for any rifle. That appears to have been lost along the way.
Regards Grandpamac. Resident curmudgoen and H.O.F.

I'll go ya one better and say it should be part of the primary school curriculum.

I like to keep my eye in. 4" gong at 100y... .22lr and iron sights. Standing. Ring it nine times of ten.
But there's the old "Get closer, if you can't get closer, get steadier"

No amount of cannonage will compensate for poor skills.

By mediocre I mean middle of the road competent, not poor or useless.
Merriam Webster: Synonyms
common, fair, indifferent, medium, middling, ordinary, passable, run-of-the-mill, run-of-the-mine (or run-of-mine), second-class, second-rate, so-so
By definition, most hunters are mediocre shooters yet can hunt ethically.
(provided they don't choose a 223 for deer)

Safety that locks the bolt so it doesn't come open when carrying slung.

My opinions. Yours may differ

These are all tradeable-off depending on budget and compromises. They are in addition to my “essential” features above. There isn’t one design that has all of them at once, but if you see them on a gun you’re planning for, recognise them and take them into account. Some cost a lot of money but are completely optional, so get as many as you can within your budget. A good well planned 303 can be a great all rounder.

Scope
Top brand: Leupold VX3 & VX5, Kahles, Zeiss Victory, S&B, Nightforce, Vortex Razor
Second tier: Leupold, Burris, Bushnell, Swarovski, Redfield, Zeiss Conquest, Vortex
3-12x40 or 2-8x32
Dial elevation SFP with thick reticle or FFP with MOA hash or Mildot
Parallax IF you need it to see the target clearly at different ranges ie age over 50.

Mounts:
Rugged yet elegant; plastic insert is good: Optilok ringmount, Leupold, Burris Zee

Picatinny rail as part of the action.

Bolt:
3 lug (easier quicker cycling and better clearance below scopes), Front locking, serviceable without tools, Simple cleaning, small bolt dia like Tikka or Sako 85 (many bolts have the body the same as the outside as of the locking lugs – just a waste of space and weight), no external Mauser like extractor claw, short lock time.

Action:
Sized to chosen calibre with generous length for COAL, eg Sako 85 has a range of 6 sizes.
Trigger adjustable around 1000g, crisp, zero creep or backlash (close to essential). Reliable safety allows unloading without switch to fire. Quiet to reload from mag. Half open bolt position, especially cock on closing like SMLE. Controlled feed to allow ejection of a partially chambered round. Seals against snow, rain and dirt. Left handed if you are left eye dominant.

Magazine: drop out box, 5+ shots, dismantle and clean without tools, excellent feed, Ability to top load is very good - a major drawback of the Tikka. Dropping a round on, to fall forward into the chamber doesn't count.

Barrel: 18-22”, stainless (greater margin for sub par maintenance and long days of dampness), standard twist for middle of the range bullet weights eg 130-160gr in 308. Medium contour or light if long. No fluting or carbon wrap. Recessed crown to reduce damage. Dark colour eg grey non reflective, phosphatised or blued. No opinion on suppressor. If you have one it should be light and small and the barrel shorter like 18 or 20”. Modules and dismantleability are good.

Cartridge: factory ammo commonly available in shops, modern design suitable for longer bullets if needed eg creedmore, taper allowing good feed, no rim, belt or rebate. Great bullets available eg 7mm, 30 cal.

Stock: carbon fibre is the most desirable but good synthetic is OK. Textured surface is good for grip. Camo pattern would be worthwhile if durable.
More comfort and fit is best. Palm swell and cheekpiece (my preference). Adjustable dimensions add weight and bits to get caught in the scrub. Ambidexterous use if you want it.

Sling: easily detachable, flush mount, not thercommon protruding knob, not screw in only, needs through bolt with washer specially on foreend. Grippy surface. Narrow, light 1” only, holds minimal water when wet, strong

Some "interesting" preferences/opinions there that would vary markedly from many of us. Not sure how Swarovski is inferior to Leupold VX3 or Vortex.

BTW, parallax adjustment is nothing to do with ageing eyes

Hell, I'd say the Sauer 101 is the closest to this ever increasing list...basically a Tikka with top loading. oh, hang on... the dipsticks dont make it in stainless!

Originally Posted by NZVarminter

Hell, I'd say the Sauer 101 is the closest to this ever increasing list...basically a Tikka with top loading. oh, hang on... the dipsticks dont make it in stainless!

Cerakote it and go hunting, oily pull through each night and it will be mint


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Originally Posted by 6x47

Some "interesting" preferences/opinions there that would vary markedly from many of us. Not sure how Swarovski is inferior to Leupold VX3 or Vortex.

BTW, parallax adjustment is nothing to do with ageing eyes

What are your preferences, @6x47 ?
A lot of the features I listed above are just my own opinions for almost any rifle, although some like weight, scope size and cartridge were meant to span the most common big game hunting scenarios for NZ.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the Swarovski. It's the wobbly ballistic turret on the Z5 I don't like, and the need to have a series of round number (200m, 300m, 400m) zero ranges to use the coloured ring system. The scope has superb optics and is nice and light and would perhaps be great with capped turrets. It was on my shortlist of scope for the allrounder a few years ago. Swaro is the recreational hunter (sport & jagd) line and Kahles is the professional heavy duty line from the same company. Either would be desirable on an all rounder hunting rifle.

For parallax, the need for geometrical correction is minimal in an all rounder hunting situation, more critical for long range >500m I understand. I was referring to the limited depth of focus in large objective, high power scopes (over 40mm and 10x). This is just annoying in a short / medium range situation. Young people can focus down without thinking about it and see close targets sharply (although the reticle goes a bit out of focus) but from age 50 onwards, the lens in your eye hardens up and it gets more and more difficult to focus up close. If you are starting to need reading glasses then you will benefit from being able to focus the target, using the parallax knob.

Originally Posted by caberslash

Surely an unmolested .222 L461 Sako Vixen with period correct Leupold or Euro low power premium scope is the correct answer?

Your crosshairs and bullets will be guided by the force, of the old NZFS Deer cullers, both living and departed.

one on trademe at moment is up OVER $5000 and still bidding hotly.....

I hear there's someone imports these second hand, so they're not as rare as that, specially if you put in an "order" and are prepared to wait for a while.

$5000 is still a bit less than you'd pay to make this setup on a new Finnlite in an all round calibre. The 85 action is better in several ways than the Vixen. That vixen is an example of a special gun for the collector and for light duties shooting hares or perhaps sika / fallow if you're a good shot. Very nice rifle, I expect.

Originally Posted by Bagheera

..

Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the Swarovski. It's the wobbly ballistic turret on the Z5 I don't like, ..

For parallax, ... I was referring to the limited depth of focus in large objective, high power scopes (over 40mm and 10x). ....

Agree on the Ballistic Turret- both of mine immediately went and were replaced with an MOA labelled cap. I feel these are more future-proof than true custom (distance labelled) caps, eg a simple change of projectile forced by unavailabliity.

As for parallax and "focus" issues, I think you need to do a bit of reading. These are not same. Young eyes with maximum "accommodation" ( the tech term for ability to adjust focus with varying distance) cannot overcome parallax issues. Parallax causes aiming errors which become important obviously at longer ranges where there is far less leeway for error, esp in wind. You need everything going your way. I'm also a F-Open shooter so am acutely aware of these things.

BTW, the amount of parallax error at any given magnification does not vary with the objective diameter. If your 18X scope has a 40 or 56mm objective, there is no difference in that variable.

Originally Posted by NZVarminter

Hell, I'd say the Sauer 101 is the closest to this ever increasing list...basically a Tikka with top loading. oh, hang on... the dipsticks dont make it in stainless!

The Sauer 101 was invented by Satan himself

Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

The Sauer 101 was invented by Satan himself

101 or 100?