Thread: E cat 762mm length question

Originally Posted by jim160

Anyway, why you would want one with a 10inch barrel is beyond me.

Considering that 10" is longer than what 300blk was made for, why would you want something even longer again??

Super short .223 I don't understand, 12ish inches is already getting bloody short for that.

I like short, handy guns.

I have a .22 AR with a permanently attached can that is only just over legal min with the stock extended, and unless there is any change it will have a folding stock adaptor fitted next time I'm in NZ-that will actually add over a inch it the in use length.
I have thought about getting the barrel trimed more due to this but as the police could change there mind at any time as to how they measure I don't want to put myself in the position of maybe in the future having a useless barrel

Short handy rifles rule, folding stocks make transport easier.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

As far as the law, if the unit can be fired while in the transport mode e.g. collapsed or broken down then the shortest length of barrel and action in the configuration that the unit can be fired in is the 'legal length'.

Most guns would be 'pistols' by that definition.

Originally Posted by jim160

I certainly don't see that working out or the Police allowing that.

There's plenty of precedent for that, i.e. the many folding stocked AKs that are E endorsed, and the fact that the Arms Code actually has a picture of one as an example of an MSSA

Originally Posted by Banana

With a bare muzzle, yes.

Interesting... Well I guess we haven't heard of anyone being "Done" for this (Yet).

No arguments about the handiness of a short rifle, just don't think .223/5.56 is the best cartridge for such a short barrel.

Originally Posted by gimp

There's plenty of precedent for that, i.e. the many folding stocked AKs that are E endorsed, and the fact that the Arms Code actually has a picture of one as an example of an MSSA

The arms code is a guide. The Arms Act is the law and whats used in Court.
I might look into that with the folding stocks.

Originally Posted by jim160

The arms code is a guide. The Arms Act is the law and whats used in Court.
I might look into that with the folding stocks.

Yes, it is only a guide, just thought it was interesting re: what it shows of how the police interpret the law. The law as above doesn't provide much clarity on this one

The biggest issue of all is that people have asked and senior police have said "measured with stock fully extended". As pointed out, their opinion is relatively meaningless. Some local AO's are of the opinion that minimum length is measured with stock folded/closed, no idea what police officers are actually told to do. It is one of those issues which needs a judge to make a binding ruling either way.

Or not, and we just keep rocking out in the grey area

My only concern is that people who think they know the law giving advice to those who don't have any idea. Much like people on here who say that's the way I read it. That's not the law or how its interpreted.
Opinions are one thing that can get people into court and spend thousands on a "that's how I read it idea".

It can be a grey area and I'm sure the police will fix it by eventuallymaking all ssemi autos an e cat rifle.

Everyone be cautious of the bush lawyers on here who think they know the law.

Yea but if they make all semi autos e cat it still doesn't answer that question.

Originally Posted by jim160

Everyone be cautious of the bush lawyers on here who think they know the law.

No-one knows the law on this because it's not clearly defined anywhere, in the act or in case law as far as anyone has been able to show. Safest? Avoid having a gun that can be measured as under 762mm

Originally Posted by jim160

Everyone be cautious of the bush lawyers on here who think they know the law.

Some of us "bush lawyers" are going on emails with police, as the law is not clear then us working with police so that we are doing what they think is within the law is all we can do.

I for one have just enough faith in the justice system that if we are seen to be making strenuous attempts be within the law,as seen by those tasked with enforcing it, that if a judge decided that we are actually outside it then we can just change what or how we do things.

As I understand it, the police decided how they would measure it after a judge decided a defendant souls have his rife measured from the two furthest point rather than along the plain of the barrel.
As I don't have this on file I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

No arguments about the handiness of a short rifle, just don't think .223/5.56 is the best cartridge for such a short barrel.

I've got a 12.5" SBR in .223/5.56 and it's surprisingly accurate. Loud as f#*k though but that's why I have it suppressed :-)

Short barrel rifles are the shiz.

Originally Posted by jim160

It can be a grey area and I'm sure the police will fix it by eventuallymaking all ssemi autos an e cat rifle.

That has nothing to do with pistols?

Originally Posted by Beavis

The biggest issue of all is that people have asked and senior police have said "measured with stock fully extended". As pointed out, their opinion is relatively meaningless. Some local AO's are of the opinion that minimum length is measured with stock folded/closed, no idea what police officers are actually told to do. It is one of those issues which needs a judge to make a binding ruling either way.

Or the legislation just clears it up so no one has to look for case law, but instead can just read the actual legislation.