Thread: From E-Cat to A-Cat?

Scrap E, it's worthless banning based on fear of cosmetic features and does not have any benefit

Originally Posted by gimp

Scrap E, it's worthless banning based on fear of cosmetic features and does not have any benefit

That's incorrect, they are restricted because of certain types of people that are attracted to the cosmetic features of certain firearms, not because of peoples fear of them. Since they're only cosmetic features you would have thought there would have been very little problem, however the pistol grip is a little more than cosmetic.

Using peoples irrational fear as the base of your argument will not work as peoples fear isn't the reasoning behind the restrictions.

Originally Posted by Savage1

That's incorrect, they are restricted because of certain types of people that are attracted to the cosmetic features of certain firearms, not because of peoples fear of them. Since they're only cosmetic features you would have thought there would have been very little problem, however the pistol grip is a little more than cosmetic.

Using peoples irrational fear as the base of your argument will not work as peoples fear isn't the reasoning behind the restrictions.

It literally is irrational fear, because "some murderers are attracted to these types of gun" doesn't hold up for shit when it's only a tiny tiny fraction of murderers who use them, even when they're freely available to them

Ban knives, 'cos waaaay more people are "attracted to them" than to E-cat style rifles, they must be because they account for a massive amount more crimes



E: We've done this like ten times, let's take it to PM if you want to continue 'cos it's really getting old on the forum and just goes in circles, you've got your beliefs, I've got mine

I'm not arguing for or against, just pointing out the flaw in your argument. I would actually support the scrapping of E catagory IF the current FAL was harder to get and harder to keep.

You can't use knifes as an example, if there was a E-Cat on every kitchen bench how do you think that would affect the murder rates for knife vs E-Cat. Knives are more easily obtainable by anyone hence the higher rate of use in crime. I would think the restrictions on firearm ownership has a direct link to how often they're used in crime.

Originally Posted by Savage1

You can't use knifes as an example, if there was a E-Cat on every kitchen bench how do you think that would affect the murder rates for knife vs E-Cat. Knives are more easily obtainable by anyone hence the higher rate of use in crime. I would think the restrictions on firearm ownership has a direct link to how often they're used in crime.

The point is that, in the USA:
-in most states an AR for example is easy to get - just go and buy it
-if they're a felon and can't pass a background check in a store it's still not hard to get if you just go and buy one face-to-face in a private transfer eg the retardedly named and misunderstood "gunshow loophole"
-if "these type of guns" attract "the wrong sort of people" then surely "the wrong sort of people" would make that minor effort to get them
-Overall murder rate with all rifles is less than 4% in the USA, that's not "ARs" or "MSSAs" it's "All rifles"
-Clearly not too many murders are making the minimal effort that they'd have to make to get those guns if they really were all attracted to them any more than they are to any weapon.

I think "the wrong sort of person" is attracted to any weapon, none more so than others really

"the wrong sort of person" in Boston was attracted to a pressure cooker full of cut up fireworks

Originally Posted by gimp

The point is that, in the USA:
-in most states an AR for example is easy to get - just go and buy it
-if they're a felon and can't pass a background check in a store it's still not hard to get if you just go and buy one face-to-face in a private transfer eg the retardedly named and misunderstood "gunshow loophole"
-if "these type of guns" attract "the wrong sort of people" then surely "the wrong sort of people" would make that minor effort to get them
-Overall murder rate with all rifles is less than 4% in the USA, that's not "ARs" or "MSSAs" it's "All rifles"
-Clearly not too many murders are making the minimal effort that they'd have to make to get those guns if they really were all attracted to them any more than they are to any weapon.

I think "the wrong sort of person" is attracted to any weapon, none more so than others really

"the wrong sort of person" in Boston was attracted to a pressure cooker full of cut up fireworks

The USA is hard to use as an example as pistols are so easily obtained over there making firearms crime up but rifle specific crime lower. It's shown that the people that go on rampages either get or try to get Military styled weapons.

To be honest I don't think the USA is any kind of example to follow, but it would be stupid not to observe and learn from any mistakes they have made.

Enough from me.

Originally Posted by Savage1

The USA is hard to use as an example as pistols are so easily obtained over there making firearms crime up but rifle specific crime lower. It's shown that the people that go on rampages either get or try to get Military styled weapons.

To be honest I don't think the USA is any kind of example to follow, but it would be stupid not to observe and learn from any mistakes they have made.

Enough from me.

I don't think it is shown. A "MSSA" is realistically as easy to get in the USA as a pistol, if not easier (state laws, age requirements for pistols). If mass shooters and murderers were really that attracted to them, they'd be used more frequently, but hardly any of the mass shootings have used them.

I don't think we should follow the US in a lot of ways either.

I also don't think that a person who can't be trusted to have a folding stock or bayonet lug (lol) on their gun should be trusted with ANY gun. If the E cat vetting process is supposed to keep those people out, why doesn't the A cat?? Where's the difference? I don't want someone who can't be trusted to have a flash hider (lol) to be able to have ANY gun.

Originally Posted by Savage1

The USA is hard to use as an example as pistols are so easily obtained over there making firearms crime up but rifle specific crime lower. It's shown that the people that go on rampages either get or try to get Military styled weapons.

To be honest I don't think the USA is any kind of example to follow, but it would be stupid not to observe and learn from any mistakes they have made.

Enough from me.

Rampages??? How many mass killing deaths in the USA within the last year? Sandyhook, Colarado! Add the deaths from these mass killings and others the last year and do we get 100 deaths-maybe? Then divide that by the population of the USA.

Now what do we get. The number is so miniscal that are these AR15 killing machines really the killers we are lead to believe???

Drink driving, stabbings, drug over dose, cycling etc etc. All individually would have a higher percentage of killings per capita in the USA than assault rifle type of thingies used in rampages.

But cause they are black they must be bad (racist society maybe?)

Its time society stopped believing what ever spin CNN and the movie makers put on the world and start to open there eyes. Any type of firearm in a responsible persons hands are NO threat at all. In the hands of a hater and nut job then yes a gun just as a car, knife, or pressure cooker can be used for harm.

I wish the idiots in power will stop restricting my freedoms due to the actions of the nut jobs.

Damn im more scared of idiot drivers in this country as they kill more people a year than MSSA rifles do!!!

Cheers