Interesting article series with a shout out to @Kiwi Greg...:thumbsup:
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Interesting article series with a shout out to @Kiwi Greg...:thumbsup:
Where is the link to the results?
Looks like he is still munching through the data so no nice tables yet of performance. All Yankee stuff but some brands are recognisable.
Muzzle Brakes: Field Test Overview & Line-Up | PrecisionRifleBlog.com
You probably already got to this link thru the first link......
It will be very interesting to see the results, unfortunately it isn't as independent & unbiased as it could have been.........
I reckon the guy did a very good explanation of how recoil works and how it is "properly" measured with his equipment .
Interesting reading the comments at the end of that blog. A couple of commenters mentioned terminator, but reading the replies it seems that brake was excluded at the specific request of American Precision Arms (APA) who make the fat bastard brake. He kind of dances around the subject, but sounds like Terminator may not be on the APA christmas card list....
Cal was concerned about how much this line of tests/comparisons was going to cost him.
APA offered to buy his test rig when he was finished with it & help him with the testing as long as another brake manufactures products weren't included in the tests because they were "eerily similar to their design"
Gotta love "independent testing" :)
That's life in the big city :)
It would be funny if you could get hold of their brake, test it against yours, and if the result are in your favour posting a video on the web.
Would love to see their green face then:D
Of course they would argue that the test is flawed because not independently done... You know the music :-)
As previously mentioned I have a large number of muzzle brakes for testing, both factory & after market :)
During testing I have fired more than 1000 rounds thus far, over half being 338 Lapua Magnum,
I have a reasonable idea how well a brake will perform by looking at it.
Some of the brakes "talked up" on the net etc are very average which is prossibly what Cal was referring to when he said there were some surprising results.
The results will be very interesting, including the noise & point of aim comparisons.
It depends how he scores the brakes the results could be somewhat skewed ?
Like in the scope comparison where if it wasn't FFP it got hammered in one of the tests, severely hurting its overall test score.
I think the guy mentioned something about patents pending in the comments section. I guess that is why APA got a bit dark on it....... eerily similar is one way of describing it. Their attorney might see it differently though, perhaps? I would suspect that is why the blog owner decided to stay out any conflict.
Well if there is a patent pending, greg you 'd better check this out( I guess you would already have done so?)
By the way ,the guy makes an accurate description of the components he uses, but what about the software program he wrote?
Is there a way of getting it ? Or are there some brainy gigs on the forum to understand and write such program?
It would be great to have such equipment here in NZ
Smoke screen.
Pretty hard to patent something that has been in the public arena for years I would imagine ?
I take it as quite a complement to be honest.
These comparisons will open many eyes, it appears that very few people have publicly compared muzzle brakes in the past.
There is no patent pending as far as I'm aware, at least there wasn't ages ago ?
Before I made my new rig I looked into the very same system he is using, its doable but at $1500+ & after conflicting advice I was unsure whether it would work.
I chose to spend those dollars on enhancing a visual system I knew worked
I'm revisiting the electronic system with a local company at the moment.
I designed and built my own machine for testing recoil energy pulse/impulse/thrust, but this was about 3 1/2 years ago. It worked out really well to measure the recoil energy of a rifle firing various cartridges, and it is what I used to test changes or improvements when i went through about 20+ prototypes when i developed my own line of original (novel) design muzzle brakes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8dztGWyW2E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsOQWA3-NLY
Have you built something similar to this now Greg? If you can get the friction as low to zero as possible the system works really well.
I looked at using load cells to measure peak force 4 years ago, but the load cells available at the time had very poor response time - great for measuring static loads (or static/constant forces), but very poor at accurately measuring pulse or impulse or spike forces.
I also felt that simply measuring force 'spike' or peak as a means of reference, or for trying to determine the true 'magnitude' of the recoil effect (or thrust) was not really accurate, or could be open to statistical misinterpretation.
I discovered alot of things about muzzle brake design that had obviously been overlooked for the decades that muzzle brakes have been around, and some of these features are in all of my proprietary designs. Hence i went to the trouble over registering/patenting my designs so that a few years down the track no-one could rip my designs, and then turn around and say that i was just copying them ! Or make copies in China and then flood the market here, which would really burn me, especially after investing big $$ in CNC machines to be able to make and sell then at a reasonable price. Not to mention all the R&D time, thousands of dollars worth of ammo, etc. etc.
Would you say you have revolutionised the muzzlebrake?
Well, if you got to read even half of the positive feed back i get from here and overseas you might think so !!
Big call, but i would say i have certainly re-written the book on what results can be expected from a compact, highly efficient muzzle brake design - without having to resort to running really steep port angles like 20 - 30 degrees, or more. On some brakes steep angles can tend to really throw the pressure wave and shrapnel back at or very close to the shooter. (All of my brakes run less than 10 degrees on the port angles.)
For alot of shooters who have never had much to do with really good brakes before it can be a truly amazing experience to be able to fire magnum calibre rifles without having to flinch or winch under punishing recoil. As long as they follow the rules and use adequate hearing protection, then all good.
For me the best feedback is from experienced shooters who have used a ton of different brakes, either in competition use, military, or for hunting use. When you get big kudos from guys like that, then that's awesome.
Just today we are posting another small order of brakes to US military personal stationed in Europe. A megamax brake is also on it's way to a customer in Lithuania.
This morning i got an email from another happy customer in New Mexico with the usual " the brake is awesome...... thanks for everything,,, etc. etc" message, and some pics and video of him shooting it. Great stuff. When you send brakes to the US it is like selling ice to eskimos !
Attachment 38366
Last week we sent some good orders of brakes to gunsmiths and customers in Aussie, and every week there are brakes going out to someone overseas. In fact i have been so busy with trying to keep up with production, hence i haven't really had to push the brakes much on here, and haven't done any you-tube updates for ages. Though it might be time to do that soon as there have been a few additions to the product line in the last year or so. Cheers.
Dean - have you read Troy Newlons book on the subject?
I think you should post Greg a break to test in his rig and he send you a brake to test in your rig and see what sort of results we get my thinking is yours will win on your setup and his will win on his but I'd like to see the comparison
I actually really LIKE the Sako TRG-42 brake , as it was one of 10 or so upgrades made to the Sako TRG-41 when trialled my the Finnish Army in 1999-2000 , and all the mods done to the TRG-41 in 338LM was to make the rifle easier to shoot & more rugged .
The brake was a large piece of kit , and used a thread on & clamp system to lock it in place , the older TRG brakes , where just a slip fit & clamp , the brake was made not just to tame a 338LM rifle , BUT a lightweight 338LM sniper rifle .
The Finns adopted the TRG-42 in I think 2000 .
It is still a pretty light sniper rifle in 338LM , most others are much heavier , and even with good brake or suppressor , due to its lightness , it can be punishing on scopes , and IF you look at the TRG-42 scope mount , it uses 3 rings on a steel base , rather than the normal 2 rings , maybe to stop the scope slipping ?
I think muzzle brake design and development have moved on a bit from the Sako TRG brake - it has been around for quite a few years now. This was pretty well proven for a couple of friends of mine who have taken the factory brakes off their TRGs in favour of Terminator brakes. The more modern Terminator brakes simply reduce recoil more.
Here is one I made recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf3rLi8L67I
Some of the brakes are also in this test.
Muzzle Brakes: Recoil Results for 308 & 300 Magnum | PrecisionRifleBlog.com
Many more comparisons here.
https://www.youtube.com/user/TerminatorProducts
Some bigger ones to come in the next few weeks :)
Nice new testing rig you have their Gregory :cool:
Why thank you Phillip :)
It does look a little more up market than this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpkhjzFF8Yw
I'm looking at getting a brake for my lr rig , how does your T2 compare to Maisey's brakes Greg?
I can't watch the video so apologize if the results are in there.
it's a 300 win mag, 215 bergers at 2950 ,21mm at Muzzle
Where can you get these breaks from? I usually send my guns to Gunworks for smithing, will they have them in stock do you think or would I have to buy one then send it to them to fit?
You can get them directly from me if you like.
Robbie doesn't carry them in stock.
Flick me an email terminatorproducts@xtra.co.nz
It would be an interesting comparison to look at the sound/blast pressure from the shooters vs. recoil reduction. I understand Cal will be reviewing that compromise later in his blog. Having used a number of brakes including TRG I have found that rear angled can be highly effective but have a price to pay in blast, as can some very open designs such as the TRG.
Outright recoil reduction is only one factor when considering the effects on the shooter, flinching can just as easily be induced through the anticipation of the concussion effect of the blast, particularly on ranges, especially if they are use a concrete table with a roof.
I expect each user needs to find his or her personal comfort zone when considering those 2 factors and this type of empirical analysis helps educate and inform that choice. The missing factor from my own perspective is the blast effect as due to my personal comfort zone.
Thank you to both of you for the transparent and useful testing published, helping to put the science behind the 'feel'
I had to laugh at the APA testing on Utube - no wonder they offered to fund Cals rig, you have to wonder how they designed their brakes with out one?
Internet rule 1: never read the comments
Finally after waiting for ages, (since Cals first post in his muzzle brake series), the Alamo 4 Star Cowl brake showed up on Friday :)
I've had the APA Fat Bastard for 6 weeks or so.
Got out & did some comparisons today :thumbsup:
Opps, the Yanks didn't do so well....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkEcALGfg5g
Still waiting for some others to compare since like 5+ months... might as well be Pixie Dust, no matter what they cost or how effective they are if you can't get them...what's the point...:ORLY: