Thread: Supressors.

Simple physics would also dictate that the barrel is weakest at the thinnest point. So these fluted barrels don't go lighter than a light profiled sporting barrel or whatever the minimum wall thickness is for the rated pressure they are run at?

If you want stiffer for comp/precision shooting then logic would dictate getting whatever contour barrel (heavy as fuck) you want then welding fins onto it of a fairly serious nature. Or maybe getting it cast like that.

The point is since your talking engineering, if you want stiffer you go heavier OR you change the steel grade. Never ever seen an engineer try to make something stronger or stiffer by doing 'fins', whether you call it fluting or some other name.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Simple physics would also dictate that the barrel is weakest at the thinnest point. So these fluted barrels don't go lighter than a light profiled sporting barrel or whatever the minimum wall thickness is for the rated pressure they are run at?

If you want stiffer for comp/precision shooting then logic would dictate getting whatever contour barrel (heavy as fuck) you want then welding fins onto it of a fairly serious nature. Or maybe getting it cast like that.

I've make a cockup with my post last night - that data is for comparable minimum diameter between the 2, not weight - thats the other paperwork scribbles.
Will change it so it reflects, and sort the other version out.
The numbers dont change, given same minor diameter, fluted is ~27% stronger

The point is since your talking engineering, if you want stiffer you go heavier OR you change the steel grade. Never ever seen an engineer try to make something stronger or stiffer by doing 'fins', whether you call it fluting or some other name.

As far as engineering - strong backing something to make it stiffer is very common practice, the Ina is increased at a rate far surpassing an equivilent strength by increasing size.
Boats/Ships employ this extensively.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Simple physics would also dictate that the barrel is weakest at the thinnest point. So these fluted barrels don't go lighter than a light profiled sporting barrel or whatever the minimum wall thickness is for the rated pressure they are run at?

If you want stiffer for comp/precision shooting then logic would dictate getting whatever contour barrel (heavy as fuck) you want then welding fins onto it of a fairly serious nature. Or maybe getting it cast like that.

The point is since your talking engineering, if you want stiffer you go heavier OR you change the steel grade. Never ever seen an engineer try to make something stronger or stiffer by doing 'fins', whether you call it fluting or some other name.

Id have thought the fluting would have acted as strengening. More surface area too = harder to bend.. or not? Id have thought that weight for weight, a fluted barrel is stiffer than a straight barrel of equivalent weight.

I'm sure one of you metal experts will set me straight on this.

Originally Posted by headcase

Id have thought the fluting would have acted as strengening. More surface area too = harder to bend.. or not? Id have thought that weight for weight, a fluted barrel is stiffer than a straight barrel of equivalent weight.

I'm sure one of you metal experts will set me straight on this.

Size for size (OD) - no - weaker - negating the effects of the ridges - ie corrugated iron vs flat sheet as an example.
However weight for weight - yes - deff stronger

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Simple physics would also dictate that the barrel is weakest at the thinnest point. So these fluted barrels don't go lighter than a light profiled sporting barrel or whatever the minimum wall thickness is for the rated pressure they are run at?

If you want stiffer for comp/precision shooting then logic would dictate getting whatever contour barrel (heavy as fuck) you want then welding fins onto it of a fairly serious nature. Or maybe getting it cast like that.

The point is since your talking engineering, if you want stiffer you go heavier OR you change the steel grade. Never ever seen an engineer try to make something stronger or stiffer by doing 'fins', whether you call it fluting or some other name.

This is a wind up right? Everywhere you look(as an engineer) this is in use as the strongest most practical way of stiffening a member(short of a 25Y old blond with a knockout figure)

Ever picked up 6M length of flat bar from one end? nup thought as much.

Flat bar is is floppy as fuck and virtually useless as a structural member(with the exception being in tensile)
Hence the angle. For much less weight we now have "stiffness" or "rigidity"
This is welding on your fin!
The problem with a angle is its tendency to twist as any side load is applied.
Hence the "channel" an improvement on both the flat bar and the angle.
And of course the UB an UC the latter pissing all over a solid of the same weight for strength/ rigidity in all directions of load.

I dont have figures in front of me but at a rough guess Id say 16 mm solid round M/S and 32mm pipeM/S would have around the same mass perM I could easily bend 16mm with my hands round my Knee,32mm pipe would reqire that levi fulla off the mega ten adds or a pipe bender!

To Increase the stiffness of a tube while maintaining the same or less weight.
You need to increase the inside and outside diameter until you end up with a thin wall large diameter pipe that is stiff as fuck but unfortunately it is now 3" bore so not an option.
Use a really high tensile steel (read high carbon) so you can run thinner wall thickness.Unfortunately this will result in a very short service life as toughness seams inversely proportionate to strength
So you are left with fluting as the logical option for a stiff barrel FOR THE WEIGHT
Yes you could make a lighter barrel but it would not be as stiff,would it be as accurate? Only you could decide
Yes you could make a stiffer barrel but it would not be as light,would it be as accurate? Only you could decide
Obviously a light barrel would heat quicker and show the problems this can cause.
The greater surface area of a fluted barrel should in theory result in quicker cooling times due to greater surface area,But in my book you wont notice the difference in cooling the gain is in the weight loss.

I'd pay money to see you bend a bit of 12mm G300 round bar over your knee let alone 16mm

Material selection is all relative to application, no material is "useless". Flat bar wall and roof bracing for example and as such is certainly classed as a structural member.

Some of us may be welders, but we are "in touch" with our materials

Originally Posted by Tui4Me

I'd pay money to see you bend a bit of 12mm G300 round bar over your knee let alone 16mm

Some of us may be welders, but we are "in touch" with our materials

I didnt say tidy constant radius bend. Just bend and Id bet levis left testicle i could do it!

Guess what you are getting in the post!

Left testicles are important!

Originally Posted by Tui4Me

Guess what you are getting in the post!

Left testicles are important!

Depends if you;re right of left handed

Originally Posted by Tui4Me

Guess what you are getting in the post!

Left testicles are important!

Witch is why you never bet with your own!

Would you like me to post a vid of bending it or would you rather fuck around sending me a bit of steel.

If you must send it send it to 42d Quarintine rd Nelson ATTN Cameron

Haha, careful I happen to have a 1m off cut of 16mm leaning up against the corner of my shed and I couldn't put an ants cock worth of bend in it over my knee

And I have had a few beers for extra strength!

Originally Posted by Tui4Me

I'd pay money to see you bend a bit of 12mm G300 round bar over your knee let alone 16mm

Material selection is all relative to application, no material is "useless". Flat bar wall and roof bracing for example and as such is certainly classed as a structural member.

Some of us may be welders, but we are "in touch" with our materials

Re read my post, *(with the exception of being in tensile)

I am a welder!
I also do a certain amount of design to fix things that keep breaking and have been designd by cleaver people who can spell and use computers

My span is around 1800mm cheers

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

[/B]
Use a really high tensile steel (read high carbon) so you can run thinner wall thickness.Unfortunately this will result in a very short service life as toughness seams inversely proportionate to strength

Sorry but bs. If that was the case then please explain all the XXS pipe going into the ground in Aussie? 1000's of km's of pipeline that won't last?.......

UB and UC is the same as comparing that 16mm rod to 32mm rod. To different horses, yet funnily enough the prefect example. No one uses UB then welds stiffeners onto it to make it stronger, they go get UC cause it is so much stronger. So why flute for the 10% gain that Spanners(?) was talking about. That logic you are talking about says go heavier.

In fact all the engineers, sorry, engineering consultants, seem to be up-spec'ing of late to build some factors into thing's when it comes to piping. Haven't seen one yet ask for stiffeners or fluting.

Of course that doesn't alter the fact some of them are dreamers.

Ductility would be more inversely proportionate to strength.

A materials toughness is based on a combination of ductility and strength.