Thread: We have too many guns on our streets

Originally Posted by Woody

The thing is--how do we sort them out?

Keep not trusting them and fight not to give them too much control.

Originally Posted by Beavis

When will we see a well written myth busting response from COLFO, SSANZ, NZDA etc?

You could write to the author himself.
jonathan.milne@star-times.co.nz

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Maybe you would like it, or it could be airsoft.

Rule 1 - don't believe these BS artists.

Wood looks to good to be a commie knock off and airsoft has no meaning in my life.
it's all corporate bullshit news anyhow but I'll bet there's nowhere near that amount of weapons stolen. And don't fierarm dealers keep a register allready ?

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by Steve123

Wood looks to good to be a commie knock off and airsoft has no meaning in my life.
it's all corporate bullshit news anyhow but I'll bet there's nowhere near that amount of weapons stolen. And don't fierarm dealers keep a register allready ?

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

yes they look very plastic

Originally Posted by Woody

It would not bother me one bit if all semi auto's were outlawed in NZ, including shotguns.

That's because you don't use them. Think about it this way, if you don't defend my right to use a semi and they take that away.
Do you think I'm going to defend your right to use a bolt action when they come for those? Don't think so partner!

Originally Posted by Walker

Now a thought, 'we' all have 'assumed' those rifles, barring the savage, m305 and Remington 788, were all MSSA's BUT airsoft 'toy's' all come in those nice plastic case's as well and look better then the 'real'.

Airsoft guns are restricted weapons, not "toys".

Originally Posted by Jexla

Airsoft guns are restricted weapons, not "toys".

Agree they're not toys, but I don't think they're restricted weapons either. I can see how you would think that, given this Police press release: http://www.police.govt.nz/news/relea...s-new-gun-laws, yet it seems to contradict the very legislation they're talking about: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...LM3653127.html

I read that as saying they were a restricted airgun. On a slightly related note, I was going to import a trigger group for a Crosman air pistol until I read that, but when I asked the arms officer he said no it was no problem and didnt need a permit, all I can figure is maybe it was because the 1377, 2240 etc are obviously designed as air pistols and not made to look like a copy of a powder burner??

I read somewhere that the Police were reviewing the Arms Act to evaluate whether the E-cat register is worth having, my guess is all semis will be made A, or (more likely) E. This will be a pain for most people, as tens, probably hundreds of thousands of the quarter-million license holders will have to buy a new safe, and register those firearms effected. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare awaiting police if they have to track down and inform every license holder in the country that all semis are now E-cat, and then issuing tens of thousands of free endorsements. The Law of Unintended Consequences here will result in many of those people keeping those semi-autos, buying a new safe, and then going and buying as many big, scary, 30 round magazines as they like; the opposite of what the police and media want to see. We could go from 7300 to 107300 E-cat holders in a very short period of time, and while I don't want to see it happen, I only have one A-cat semi-auto, and if I had to register it and pop it in the E-cat safe next to the L1A1, I wouldn't lose any sleep. Having many more people with endorsements actually might result in them trying harder to keep hold of their investments, and putting more pressure on the govt and Police as a result.
As other have pointed out, Police are (quite rightly) shocked at what they come across in the possession of gang members, but if these firearms were being acquired for premeditated crimes, that's what they'd be used for. Instead they are clearly status symbols, and maybe to be used against other gangs, and don't really see the light of day unless whoever has it gets drunk enough or angry enough to use it. Yes this is concerning, but it means these crims have weighed up the pros and cons and know that (in some cases I've seen) a $200 fine is all they face if caught with it. So, I think a $10,000 fine for any gang member caught with a firearm would go a long way to dissuading them, plus $100 per round of ammunition, and if the can't pay, it can come out of their benefit until paid off. Also the current security requirements for A-cat licenses are a joke, the booklet that comes with the arms code these says you can just chain them around an immovable object like a rafter or hot-water cylinder.
Online registration in gun shops? Three out of my four co-workers don't even know how to log on to Fish & Game to issue a fishing license to a customer, but hey, it'd be fun to watch.
As for Woody, he is certainly entitled to express his opinion; that's what a forum is for, but he ought to have known most of us on here shoot semi-autos. If he thinks we have anger management issues and are mentally unstable for disagreeing with him, then I dare say he may be a bit soft. Perhaps shooting and hunting are too controversial, and he ought to consider another hobby. Cup-stacking is a sport, apparently.

Originally Posted by tommygun

I read somewhere that the Police were reviewing the Arms Act to evaluate whether the E-cat register is worth having, my guess is all semis will be made A, or (more likely) E. This will be a pain for most people, as tens, probably hundreds of thousands of the quarter-million license holders will have to buy a new safe, and register those firearms effected. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare awaiting police if they have to track down and inform every license holder in the country that all semis are now E-cat, and then issuing tens of thousands of free endorsements. The Law of Unintended Consequences here will result in many of those people keeping those semi-autos, buying a new safe, and then going and buying as many big, scary, 30 round magazines as they like; the opposite of what the police and media want to see. We could go from 7300 to 107300 E-cat holders in a very short period of time, and while I don't want to see it happen, I only have one A-cat semi-auto, and if I had to register it and pop it in the E-cat safe next to the L1A1, I wouldn't lose any sleep. Having many more people with endorsements actually might result in them trying harder to keep hold of their investments, and putting more pressure on the govt and Police as a result.
As other have pointed out, Police are (quite rightly) shocked at what they come across in the possession of gang members, but if these firearms were being acquired for premeditated crimes, that's what they'd be used for. Instead they are clearly status symbols, and maybe to be used against other gangs, and don't really see the light of day unless whoever has it gets drunk enough or angry enough to use it. Yes this is concerning, but it means these crims have weighed up the pros and cons and know that (in some cases I've seen) a $200 fine is all they face if caught with it. So, I think a $10,000 fine for any gang member caught with a firearm would go a long way to dissuading them, plus $100 per round of ammunition, and if the can't pay, it can come out of their benefit until paid off. Also the current security requirements for A-cat licenses are a joke, the booklet that comes with the arms code these says you can just chain them around an immovable object like a rafter or hot-water cylinder.
Online registration in gun shops? Three out of my four co-workers don't even know how to log on to Fish & Game to issue a fishing license to a customer, but hey, it'd be fun to watch.
As for Woody, he is certainly entitled to express his opinion; that's what a forum is for, but he ought to have known most of us on here shoot semi-autos. If he thinks we have anger management issues and are mentally unstable for disagreeing with him, then I dare say he may be a bit soft. Perhaps shooting and hunting are too controversial, and he ought to consider another hobby. Cup-stacking is a sport, apparently.

They won't make all semis into MSSAs, they don't need to. The amendments to the arms act now allows types of firearms to be declared MSSAs.
So rather just by the features a semi auto rifle has (pistol grip, magazine size, bayonet lug, flash hider etc), we should now expect all AR types and variants, all AK types and variants and others like the M14/M1A/M305 and SLR/FAL to be declared MSSAs full stop, even if they are currently in A-Cat appearance and not held by an endorsed licensee.

Don't expect them to give out the easy MSSA endorsements again either. I agree with you, Police don't want more, they want less evil black rifle owners around the country!
I suspect it will be a variation on last time, on sell it to an endorsed holder or hand in to the Police to surrender by a certain date.
We all know how that worked in Australia, only half the known rifles ever were handed in.

On the other hand, there might be some cheap newly designated MSSAs flooding the market, so if you have the $$$, some good deals will be made.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Yes (I have my licence) and No.

What is it and where do you live and whats you email?

Originally Posted by Tussock

I did not pick him, or pick on him at all. He has been around as long as I have. He knows how his words will be interpreted. We are all big boys.

You have to be careful with how you sway opinion in public forums and some things are damaging. Me, I'm not much for blackpowder. Can't see the point. But if there was a failure of a blackpowder fire arm that took someones head off and suddenly no one was allowed to use them any more, I would not say "well, I don't use them, so who cares".

Everyone knows this attitude reduces numbers, which is all we have on our side.

If they don't know, then they should know.

I can imagine Woodies statement was an off hand, only relevant to him comment that it would not bother him if there were no semi autos, but its a hell of a stretch in the context of this thread.

So, apologies if I got you wrong Woody, but we don't know you like Maca does, and I don't think people can afford to divide fire arms use into just the type they like.

My personal opinion is criminals should not have guns and non-criminals should be free to do as they please.

Yep i agree and said to Woody that I didnt agree with the comment for the sake of divide and conquer, but I know the work Woody puts in on other matters< he is one dedicated man. It would be good if more on this forum needled the pollies the way he does!!
Now the beauty of Black Power is I cannot put to much in cause thats just a waste!!!

Originally Posted by Rushy

Maca I am worried that if Woody cleans your ears your brain might roll out through the now widened gap. Also rearranging any man's brain and thought patterns should not take a few hours as there is only food, shelter, work, play and sex and there various sub sets to be organised. In point of fact, sex could well be a sub set of play so it may be even easier still.

Rushy I traveled a few miles with you and your correct about the eating, and play and drinking, no work, and sleeping in the same room with I was probably lucky there was no sex. Im thankful I kept my virginity!
Now Woody solves the problems of the world as you cover the miles, cant shoot for shit, but his wife provides very hot coffee and awesome food!!

Greg O'Connor is scaremongering again with meaningless figures that he has plucked out of thin air. The NZ Police have put a large number of handguns into the illegal pool, Glocks in recent years, and a large and unknown number of .38 S&W Victory revolvers were sold out the backdoor of the Police Armoury when it was in Vivian Street in the 1970's. The Police were changing to .38 Special S&W Model 10's and all the old .38's were sent in to be replaced. They were just chucked into a large box without any records being taken (I saw the box with several hundred revolvers in it when I visited) and they disapeared out the back door every week. The Police Armourer and a couple of others were convicted but the guns had disappeared. The NZ Defence Force has lost large numbers of guns over the years (pistols, SMG's, MG's and rifles) but I have never seen any figures. That would make an interesting question in the house! Add to those the significant numbers of firearms that have been smuggled into NZ over the years from North America and the Eastern Bloc countries (hidden in motor vehicles, engines, etc, and brought in on foreign fishing vessles as a source of ready cash for crew members). The problem does not lie with the lawful firearms owners of NZ! It lies with the armed government departments and slack border security! Of course, the various departments will invoke CYA policies and seek to shift the blame onto innocent parties. They would never admit to anything that would affect their cushy jobs, annual bonuses and extravagant superannuation!

This remindes me of a joke I heard recently.

In soviet Russia one comrade says to the other "Dear comrade, how come you have worked at the bed factory for 10 years but you don't have a bed in your house?"
The other says "The party distributes beds on the bases of need. The comrades at the hospital need beds much more than I do I am still waiting."
The first comrade then says "Dear comrade, you do not understand this problem. You work at the bed factory so every day you should take a part home from the parts bin and then when you assemble all the parts you will have a bed."
The other replies "No comrade, it is you that doesn't understand, we have done this many times but it does not work - each time we end up with a AK47 assault rifle!"

Guns are just inanimate bits of wood, plastic and metal. You banning them is as stupid as banning plants although that doesn't stop people trying.