Thread: What would your ultimate Bush Pig rifle build be and what NZ gunsmith would you use?

Originally Posted by Sidney

Yep.... but how fangible a projectile is will make a difference...

And while the debunking was conclusive if I remember, basic physics would suggest that the deviation caused by projectiles at the same speed, but with different masses should vary... I have always been puzzled by that. Perhaps it is why the idea persists?

I think the main advantage with a larger calibre is that it lends itself to a short barrel where an overbore round struggles.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

I think the main advantage with a larger calibre is that it lends itself to a short barrel where an overbore round struggles.

I bloody hope so or I might have a bit of egg on my face!!

Originally Posted by mikee

I bloody hope so or I might have a bit of egg on my face!!

Egg on the face to go with the bruise on the shoulder?

Modern mono and bonded premium projectiles have changed the playing field.

In the past slow and heavy was considered the way for close quarters due to the fragile nature of projectiles, slower impact velocity meant less likelihood of bullet failure, meat damage and wounding due to poor penetration.

Larger bore also meant that expansion was less of a concern as big bullets make big holes!

I suspect this is largely why the .270 got its reputation as a wounder, poor bullet construction.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Egg on the face to go with the bruise on the shoulder?

probably not too mention a wee wee. I'm gonna try 407gn Cast bullet at 1050fps as well

Originally Posted by mikee

probably not too mention a wee wee. I'm gonna try 407gn Cast bullet at 1050fps as well

The hammer of Thor.

No, the hammer of Quickley.

I remember reading a Nick Harvey article in an ancient mag (Sporting Shooter I think) when i was a kid around about 1978-ish. Harvey was testing a number of rounds and bullet types for deflection through scrub and he reckoned the 358 Win with a round nose pill worked the best.... I remember being young and impressionable and dreamed of getting a Miroku lever in 358 Win (what he used).... I saved a ton of money by buying an old 8x57 Mauser as my first centrefire instead.....

Originally Posted by gadgetman

I believe that was tested and completely debunked a few years back.

yeah it probably has been debunked, but the best result in believing your 'heavier bullet' (or whatever bullet) doesn't get deflected is just getting on with taking the shot at the right time and not worrying about branches and twigs that may make you miss that best opportunity

Originally Posted by Sidney

It seems like everyone is missing the point... the bush pig thing is only an issue if you want a can, and don't want the extra length and weight on the end of your barrel that a good can creates.

If you don't want a can, good luck to you and your increasing deafness.... or your fumbling for something to stuff in your ears...

If you do want to use a suppressor; personally I don't like putting cans on anything over 20 inches in length, and preferably about 16" so that the extra 4-5" forwards make it a total about back to where we started. People who started doing this soon worked out that a small amount of velocity loss made little difference to the thing you point it at, and in fact if you reloaded, using faster powders still got you back to almost the same velocities as what you are buying in factory boxes with the original length barrel.

Now there are 2 reasons, why you might not want to chop.... you have a nice original rifle or you don't want a suppressor. Don't chop if you don't want a supressor. Its almost all minuses. If you can live with an original length rifle and a suppressor, good luck to you also... some do just because they don't want to chop a nice rifle.

Outside of that, for me at least it's purely pragmatic.... I've already lost as much hearing as I want to and I don't want to cart a telephone pole around in the bush.

Yeah.i get your point but heres the thing. Shooting at the range or sighting in etc you use ear protection. If you shooting long range or have plenty of time to set up and shoot you use ear protection. If you goat shooting etc you use ear protection, not a problem. if you bush stalking and see a animal one shot should do the business and one shot here and their doesnt totally stuff your hearing. My hearings fine, and ive use no suppressor for years . I know many old time shooters and alot of their hearing is fine,but those ones that arent told me they used to fire untold shots without hearing protection and often sighted in whereever without hearing protection and still arnt stone deaf. Using a suppressor is clearly a good choice for your hearing no doubt and should be encouraged .
But not using one isnt the end of your hearing if you use protection when you can and a shot here and there doesnt seem to do alot from what ive seen and heard from long time shooters

www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5dve7vAY9I

While not the most scientific a good practical demonstration.

Most of my hunting 75% is Bush and I can indeed say large slow moving calibres are very good in this area. I have had 223, and 308 Ballistic tip projectiles be deflected by small branches missing out on animals. On the other hand I have had my 45-70 and 9.3x62 go through rather large branches (wrist size in diameter) and they have reached the animal and poleaxed them.

They of course have their downsides which is low BC.s and lower velocities particularly in the 45-70 which is really at max a 200yd gun. But when most of it is in the bush or small slips and clearings I can live with this.

No one calibre or configuration is perfect for everything and The bog standard 16 inch 308 bush pig will do well. But the larger calibres shine in this area and are great and fun to shoot!

Originally Posted by deer243

Yeah.i get your point but heres the thing. Shooting at the range or sighting in etc you use ear protection. If you shooting long range or have plenty of time to set up and shoot you use ear protection. If you goat shooting etc you use ear protection, not a problem. if you bush stalking and see a animal one shot should do the business and one shot here and their doesnt totally stuff your hearing. My hearings fine, and ive use no suppressor for years . I know many old time shooters and alot of their hearing is fine,but those ones that arent told me they used to fire untold shots without hearing protection and often sighted in whereever without hearing protection and still arnt stone deaf. Using a suppressor is clearly a good choice for your hearing no doubt and should be encouraged .
But not using one isnt the end of your hearing if you use protection when you can and a shot here and there doesnt seem to do alot from what ive seen and heard from long time shooters

Maybe you should ask an audiologist their opinion rather than rely on the opinions of these 'long time shooters'. I suspect you will find every shot fired without some form of protection does compounding damage.

But hey, they are your ears to wreck I suppose.

An audiologist will tell you that loud noise will damage your hearing but what they cant tell you is to what degree as there are far to many variables. A dentist will tell you to brush twice a day and floss, an optometrist will tell you to wear safety glasses at all times, a dietitian will not like you eating bacon, a dermatologist will have you out of the sun. All of which would make for a pretty depressing hunting trip.
I wonder how many audiologists have bad teeth and eat bacon.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

Do you really need something with a massive pill for short range bush hunting? My experience level with this is zero. I would have thought that for close range work pretty much anything would have enough wallop, the main thing is to put the lead sleeping pill in the right place?

I know exactly what you mean! I took my mutt out last night with a borrowed BSA Majestic 243 wearing a 2-7 vx1 and taped suppressor and man did it feel like the business! And in terms of energy well the humble 223 has well over that magical 1000 ft-lbs and I know numerous people who use the 223 religiously but I just don't shoot enough to place the bullet perfect every time.