Who is interested in a pass-around for a Chinese scope?

Some may remember when I posted this thread about a Chinese brand scope:
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-scopes-39921/

They got this higher spec-ed model which I was interested in:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/T-EA...848240560.html



This is a 2-16x44 scope, with 1 ED glass, pull and push lock turret, fancy reticle.

I managed to get a hold of the guy that is behind this product, and discussed with him the possibility of him sending over a sample for us Kiwis to try out. He is in principle agreeable. what he wants to get out of this is reviews and feedbacks, and if people like it, hopefully a sale or two.

So, I would like to know who may be keen. below are the rules that I have in mind for this possible pass-around:

1. I will be the organiser.
2. you will have to pay shipping to get the scope from me and returning it back to me.
3. you can have the scope two or maybe three weeks.
4. you can put it on any rifle below 300 win mag. I am not sure if this scope can handle that caliber. You can used it on as many rifles as you like during your two or three weeks. you can take it to hunting or target shooting. If the scope breaks from recoil (so long as it was less than 300 win mag), not your problem. if it survives one whole round of pass-around (as in everyone who wanted a go had a go), we can try it on larger calibres
5. you must write a review at the end of your pass around. tell us what gun did you use, what did you shoot, what testing (if any) did you do. what other scopes of yours did you compare it to and how did it compare.
6. you must deposit $410 dollars to my bank account before I send the scope to you. 10 dollars will be used for shipping, and when I receive the scope back I will refund you $400. so you must make sure you take reasonable care of it (because other people will have to use it after you).

I would like to know if there are enough people interested in this exercise to make it worthwell.

I will try to get a discount for the participants if anyone is interested in buying one in the end.

Any discussions about the proposed rules are welcome.

FUCK OF NODDY

you want me to deposit $400 into your account so i can do a review on this scope . . . . very tempting offer

No thanks

if you are not interested that is fine. no need to be rude. if u have no interest in something like this then obviously it would not interest you. but some people may like to tinker with something like this without any buying commitment. like i said i would like to negotiate a discount with the guy if people want to buy one after trying it out.

the review doesnt have to be long. just answers to these questions will do.

regarding the deposit. i would think i have been a long enough member for you not to suspect that i would run off with 400 bucks. but in any event there is this thread as proof as to the nature of the transction plus the participant would know my bank account detail so i dont see how you could think there is any room for a fraud.

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Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

if you are not interested that is fine. no need to be rude. if u have no interest in something like this then obviously it would not interest you. but some people may like to tinker with something like this without any buying commitment. like i said i would like to negotiate a discount with the guy if people want to buy one after trying it out.

the review doesnt have to be long. just answers to these questions will do

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...would rather buy a known performer, put it on a rifle - knowing it is unlikely to let me down....and that I don't have to muck around sighting it in and sending it back.
Especially if there is a chance it may not perform - on a 300 Win Mag? Nothing says confidence in your product like "don't push it too hard"
Good luck with the trial...

Fair comment Nick. This is a tinkering exercise. if you are on the market for a proven scope and you do not want to spend time and ammo to try different things, this is definitely not for you. Much better off just get a VX5HD.

I would think this exercise should interest people who:
1. want an all-round scope for AR like rifle
2. like to play with scopes
3. want something for a hunting + plinkering 22
4. want something for a 17hmr/22WMR
5. want something to try out on a new toy (like, the 7th rifle)

I got interested in this purely because it is the first time I see a Chinese brand using ED glass, and from the photos, Iq looks pretty good. I dont even have a use for it. but I just want to play a bit with it.

If a $400 scope DOES ending up being alright, why not? I have a bunch of chinese stuff that works just fiiine, and costs 1/20th of the equivalent euro/yank stuff. Not everyone has Nightforce budgets. There are so many threads on here with people complaining that they can't give something a whirl, and yet here it is on a plate! Not interested? Walk on by.

I have been scammed . Knowing the bank account number means nothing. Cops laugh at you banks tell you to fuck off.

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Do you buy things on this forum? I have bought a few things (3 scopes, interestingly, and all more than 400). Each time I send money first, then receive the goods. I think I am not the only guy that TOOK THE HUGE RISK [not really] and bought stuff on this forum.

But of course, ff you cannot trust me, and think that I will run off with your four hundy, you do not have to participate. Simple as that.

Not having a go at you , but you stated above that bank account means security. It means nothing. And no I've never been scammed off the forum, if you are going to give the money back anyway why don't you just front up with it in the first place?

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If the guy is supplying you a scope free to evaluate and provide feedback why is such a large sum needed as a deposit ?
If he isn't supplying the scope free for evaluation and charging you ( us ) to review and provide feed back on his product then I think he's out of touch with how to gain market and exposure .

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Originally Posted by Cartman

Not having a go at you , but you stated above that bank account means security. It means nothing. And no I've never been scammed off the forum, if you are going to give the money back anyway why don't you just front up with it in the first place?

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Bank account number and this thread proves the nature of the transaction. that was my point.

As to the 400 deposit, if you think I am being unreasonable, then, again, do not participate.

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Originally Posted by viper

If the guy is supplying you a scope free to evaluate and provide feedback why is such a large sum needed as a deposit ?
If he isn't supplying the scope free for evaluation and charging you ( us ) to review and provide feed back on his product then I think he's out of touch with how to gain market and exposure .

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He is supplying it for free. the point about the 400 is to ensure every participant treats it with care. the last thing I want is for someone to say oops it fell off the truck, or throw it on the concrete because it came through free.

You either trust that I will not run off with the money or you do not.

As for him being out of touch, that may or may not be so, not for me to judge. But when did any other brand come to this forum and offere a scope to test for free?

So say 5 people say yes..... you've got 2k sitting there for a scope you recieved for free and your making them pay shipping..... yeah nah bro....
Yeah nah.

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No. you only pay when it is your turn.

1. the first person pays 410, I sent the scope to him;
2, 2 or 3 weeks later, he sends it back, i check it, then I refund him 400.
3. I let the second person know it is ready to go,
4. the second person pays 410, I send the scope to him.
5. rinse, repeat.

As to "the scope I received for free and make them pay for shipping". I do not understand your implied criticism/complaint. Each person pays for their own shipping so that they can play with it. They all play it for free, because the guy behind it is happy to send one to us and I am prepared to donate my time organising this.

Well it's an interesting concept and I wish you luck. Personally I don't have $400 laying about to do this.

For what it's worth. I am a litigation lawyer working in Auckland CBD. I personally think I got far better way to make money than go through all this to scam 400 dollars.

For $400 I'd buy a second hand Leupold and keep it.

Why do you think people would want to steal a scope that's not even worth the shipping cost to their door?

for 400 to fondle something else has id rather it be a lady of the night than scope

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Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

For what it's worth. I am a litigation lawyer working in Auckland CBD. I personally think I got far better way to make money than go through all this to scam 400 dollars.

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$400 maybe a small amount to a lawyer in Auckland but it certainly is not to most members on this forum . . . you need to rethink this offer and maybe spend more time with real people

What's a big shot lawyer to whom money aint a thing doing getting excited about a crappy chinese scope.... personally I wouldn't care how good it seems at first impression, what really matters is 6, 12, 24 months down the track when it shits itself what sort of comeback is there going to be? I'm gonna say none...

While not personally interested in the deal thanks for trying something new and good luck

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Originally Posted by systolic

For $400 I'd buy a second hand Leupold and keep it.

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Well after you've received the Chinese scope and realised that it's not for you then you can do that once you pass it on and get your $400 back and then go and buy a Leupold.

Pretty simple concept that people don't seem to grasp.

Put me down for one, might be a good one for a .22

My view on potential quality:

I own about 10 scopes in total. 2 American, 1 Japanese, rest are Chinese. The Chinese ones include Hawke, Nikkor Stirling, and Mueller. I have not yet had any Chinese scope die on me. Warranty obviously is an important consideration for purchase. When you buy from aliexpress you cannot expect much. That definitely is a con. However when you buy a mid-ranged known brand scope you also get no warranty, or at least without original receipt warranty will be a big hassle to enforce. People still buy them (secondhand scope of known brand) because the price makes it worth well. This scope, and many other Chinese brand scopes, are made by factories that makes OEM for other known brands. They spent about 15 years making scopes for Bushnell, Vortex, Hawke, Nikkor, Weaver, Mueller, etc. So they know how to make scopes. They just do not have the name power and do not get to test their own scopes with real fire arms.


On why this scope - this is a 8x zoom scope with a lot of modern features. xmas tree recticle, ed glass, pull and push turret, 30mm tube, flip cap, side focus, etc. if the IQ pans out, at 400 bucks it is very good value. Nikkon 3-15 with ED glass cost about 1100, VX5HD 3-15 cost 1700, just to name a couple known brand with these kind of features and range (obviously much more reliable on expected quality and warranty as well, but I a just comparing features here). For those who do not need this scope on a big gun, anything 223 or under, so long as it is not actually shit I do not see it getting killed by recoil. A lot of people shot Nikkor Stirling and Hawke on 308 for years and they were OK.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

I would suggest someone on here who is based in Auckland hook up with Ultimitsu and eyeball him/her. .

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Any female member under the age of 30, preferably good looking, who is looking for a good time, should apply. More than eyeballing can be expected.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

What's a big shot lawyer to whom money aint a thing doing getting excited about a crappy chinese scope....

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I do not get why this thing has to get so personal. I spend time trying to get some thing new and interesting for the forum. then I get accused of trying to rob people for 400 bucks (I mean, really!?). I then explain I am a working professional therefore not a thief. (without saying anything about my actual income), suddenly I am too good for this scope and the pass-around?

Damned if I do and damned if I dont.

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Originally Posted by rossi.45

$400 maybe a small amount to a lawyer in Auckland but it certainly is not to most members on this forum . . . you need to rethink this offer and maybe spend more time with real people

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Well. my impression is that most members on this forum own better gear than myself. the most commonly talked about scopes are likes of VX5HD, NF, Zeiss. In fact most opinions in this thread is not that this scope is too expensive. but the opposite. it is too cheap and ought to be shit.

You do not spend 400 to play with the scope. You spent just your shipping cost to play with it; you put 400 up as bond and get it back when you done (in fact this particular scope is going to be used for pass-around so you cannot keep it even if you wanted too, without upsetting other people).

I think most if not all hunting and shooting hobbyists on this forum has 400 bucks to do this if they were interested.

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Originally Posted by systolic

For $400 I'd buy a second hand Leupold and keep it.

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For once I agree with you


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Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

My view on potential quality:

I own about 10 scopes in total. 2 American, 1 Japanese, rest are Chinese. The Chinese ones include Hawke, Nikkor Stirling, and Mueller. I have not yet had any Chinese scope die on me. Warranty obviously is an important consideration for purchase. When you buy from aliexpress you cannot expect much. That definitely is a con. However when you buy a mid-ranged known brand scope you also get no warranty, or at least without original receipt warranty will be a big hassle to enforce. People still buy them (secondhand scope of known brand) because the price makes it worth well. This scope, and many other Chinese brand scopes, are made by factories that makes OEM for other known brands. They spent about 15 years making scopes for Bushnell, Vortex, Hawke, Nikkor, Weaver, Mueller, etc. So they know how to make scopes. They just do not have the name power and do not get to test their own scopes with real fire arms.


On why this scope - this is a 8x zoom scope with a lot of modern features. xmas tree recticle, ed glass, pull and push turret, 30mm tube, flip cap, side focus, etc. if the IQ pans out, at 400 bucks it is very good value. Nikkon 3-15 with ED glass cost about 1100, VX5HD 3-15 cost 1700, just to name a couple known brand with these kind of features and range (obviously much more reliable on expected quality and warranty as well, but I a just comparing features here). For those who do not need this scope on a big gun, anything 223 or under, so long as it is not actually shit I do not see it getting killed by recoil. A lot of people shot Nikkor Stirling and Hawke on 308 for years and they were OK.

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Only Non magnum I have with 30 mm rings is a 30 06 which currently runs 180gn superformance. I may be interested in taking it for a range sesh.
Whats the objective size? Not all things made in China are shit problem is the good ones normally have an American rebranding and adding a hefty margin. Dealing direct with the manufacturer makes a lot of sense.

Who gets the $400 if it was to get damaged, and who decides what caused the damage

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Originally Posted by Harryg

Who gets the $400 if it was to get damaged, and who decides what caused the damage

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pretty much the crux of the matter. A lot relying on trust and although I have never yet been burnt buying thru the forum and generally send stuff i sell before payment has been recieved I have about had the "trust" kicked out of me lately

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Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Any female member under the age of 30, preferably good looking, who is looking for a good time, should apply. More than eyeballing can be expected.

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So that proves it. You are a lawyer.

Cool concept and good on you for trying to share the experience. The only bit that i dont quite get is the $400 part. You want trust from the testers to hold a $400 bond but have not paid it yourself. Thats not trust. Trust for me would be pay shipping and treat it well (trust) and see how it goes. Even if someone ran it over why should you make $400?

This is not a new concept.

"..Goods owned in common by a large number of people will receive little attention, since people will mainly consult their own self-interest and will neglect all duty they can fob off on to others. In contrast, people will devote the greatest interest and care to their own property."

An idea well over 2000 years old, in this case Aristotle

Trust works better when it goes both ways

Maybe a token 50 bucks would work out better.

I dont mind meeting up for a beer to help assure others that you're bona fide. I don't even have anything in need of a scope.

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Originally Posted by Gibo

Cool concept and good on you for trying to share the experience. The only bit that i dont quite get is the $400 part. You want trust from the testers to hold a $400 bond but have not paid it yourself. Thats not trust. Trust for me would be pay shipping and treat it well (trust) and see how it goes. Even if someone ran it over why should you make $400?

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This is a fair question, the answer is in fact quite complicated. But let's try anyway.

On the issue of trust. I have spent a lot of time talking to the guy and talking to you guys over this proposal. Trust me it is not easy to convince him and equally not easy to convince you lot. What do I get out of this in the end of the day? A chance to play with this scope without paying retail price. Just like the rest of you. So for starters if you think I am not trustworthy despite plainly my efforts put into this would be disproportional if I just wanted to scam 410 dollars (the maximum amount I could possibly scam, if I was a scammer), then let the reading end at this point.

It is one thing that after all these discussions each interested forum member decides for himself if I am trustworthy. It is another thing to ask me to vet every single interested party. I cannot do it. No time and no able. I cannot possibly make the correct call to say, Gibo I do not trust you but Tahr I trust you. So the only way to make this work, from my end, is for a participant to deposit 400 bucks as bond.

Now turning to the ownership issue of the scope. The guy did not say "bro I like you so I am going to give you one for free". If that was the case why do I bother with a pass-around? He is willing to send one over, without me/us paying for it, to test/play with it. I told him that in the end of the day, it may break from recoil, it may get scratches from use, etc, so do not expect to get it back in good condition, or get it back at all. Now he is willing to accept that, but he is not prepared to just give one out and then forget about it. That is not the point of this exercise. I only just started talkng to him yesterday, he owes me nothing and knows no one in this forum. What he wants get out of this, is reviews and feedbacks. If someone (for argument sake) steals it, loses it or damages it through negligence , I will have to have an awkward conversation with him. He is not going to come to New Zealand and sue me (I do not think), but it certainly will be shitty. I am not sure what I would do in that situation, to pay him or not, but I certainly do not want that situation to happen in the first place. The best and fairest way to reduce the chance of it happening I can think of is the 400 dollar bond, so that everyone will take good care of it.

This scope can be bought from a few stores on Aliexpress for 440 NZD (then you will have to pay GST etc). On JD.com (China's Amazon equivalent) it is 2400 RMB which is about 500 NZD. So 400 dollar bond in my view really is very fair.

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Originally Posted by systolic

For $400 I'd buy a second hand Leupold and keep it.

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Sure thing, different strokes for different folks.

For 400 bucks, I do not think you are going to get a Leupold with:
1. side focus,
2. more than 3.5x zoom range
3. more than 14 max zoom
4. xmas tree recticle
5. VX3 class+ glass

Not saying that you need them, but if you wanted them all on a leupold, you will have to pay 900+ for secondhand.