Looking at buying a new truck. This month.contemplatimg the 2 options. Have a petrol navara for sale 2017 if the trade.doesnt work out
.suggestions.
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Looking at buying a new truck. This month.contemplatimg the 2 options. Have a petrol navara for sale 2017 if the trade.doesnt work out
.suggestions.
Vechile advice is a bit like scopes we all have a different veiw,
We lost out landcruiser 2 months ago and we were after a replacement, I've always been toyota through and through we have a 18 hilux, test drove the new gr hybrid and was really disappointed, same interior, engine etc come on toyota sharpen up! See the new model coming next year still has the same motor.
So yeah for 80k plus was bitterly disappointed in the hilux and I so wanted one in the shed.
Ended up with a Ford after the wife suggested we test drive one, so far ahead of toyota, sorry didn't test drive the dmax but it's most likely got a bit more fruit than the hilux at a guess.
Yeah i haven't even contemplated ford. Heard some horror stories about their gearboxs. And a friend has been dealing with ford for 2 years since new with his..the latest offered a older model truck and some.cash his way to sort the problem .
DMAX have their issues, I think the latest ones have an issue with the front upper control arms which causes excessive front tyre wear.
But they have the mighty 4JJ3 engine.
Out of those two I’d be choosing the DMAX all day.
I have an Isuzu Mux after selling manual D Max. Same running gear, but with coil rears so softer ride. Son had a new work Hilux. Turning circle hopeless and I kept hitting my head getting in to front passengers seat. He did 40 odd thou Km in it and commented he’d never own one as a pvt vehicle.
If only those choices then the Dmax. But if looking at the Dmax then look at the Mazda as it’s basically the same wagon with a few changed panels and 2 less cup holders. And service fees at the dealer are about half what Isuzu was going to charge me.
Yeah 100% mate, all brands have there's issues, 5 year warranty makes that not my issue though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackers
We certainly hadn't considered ford I told the salesman I thought rangers were piles of shit.
Only prob is Mazda is not bring the BT50 in anymore, the capped servicing is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barefoot
There are kits and replacement parts you can get for the front suspension, but a good wheel aligner can and sorted it out for me once it started wearing unevenly.
And I think Dmax have sorted the issue with the control arms from july 24
Have a look at the running gear and engine bays of these new hybrid vehicles and compare them to the simplicity of the order deisel models. You don't need to be a mechanic to see that they are a mind fuck.
The electrical side is a whole another conversation.
I'd be weary of Rangers. I went from a 2000 Hilux to a 2021 Ranger (new) and have had a number of problems. Loss of power when driving, complete loss of power after turning it off for 10 minutes. Most annoying thing is that the Ford Dealer's solution is always for me to get it towed into them (50km). I really miss my Hilux (although I enjoy the extra power and comfort of the Ranger when it's working)
I really wanted a brand new Hilux, but local Toyota dealers were worse than ..........................
Most often repeated by their sales team was Toyota hold their value, we were cash buyers but would not do a discount of any sort unless we had CRT card or could access fleet discount, wtf
Ripped up the bank cheque in front of the guy and walked out.
Brought a Colorado via dealer that provided service and a bloody sharp deal and has provided really top service ever since (yes they are not cheap)
Will never go back to local Toyota after that, I don't give second chances any more.
I'm not sure personally I would want a hybrid as an off-road vehicle if I were doing ANY offroad at all. Just for a round-town car then maybe
Man, you guys make it really really hard for us 1990's Nissan patrol/Toyota Landcruiser guys to look forward to a new truck! The power and bells and whistles may be fine and dandy, but the gremlins and electronic dramas sound like anathema to me. I am retired and in no hurry to be anywhere quicker than I need to be.
Yep. The new pattern anything is always nice, but after being around several of the new model trucks including the Toyota hybrids I'm not in any hurry at all to get rid of my 2013 Ranger (right on the crossover point PX1 and PX2, PX2 on the plate for the 3500Kg tow rating but same visuals as the PX1's). The new trucks have been kneecapped, hamstrung, and ball knotted by the emissions bullshit and it's a bloody shame.
After towing big gear with the little engine trucks, I'm really disappointed as they pull OK with the gearing but there is no engine braking assistance at all period and the brakes soon start to feel like it. The computers and electronics are an obvious failure point and require a specialist and highly knowledgeable individual to sort them if something weird goes south. There are not many people in this class in NZ - and it makes it very hard. I had to sort the truck I have now when the PCM went screwy - dealer walked on it and told me a BS story about what needed to happen which would not have fixed it - diagnosed mechanical faults when it was PCM and electronics and doesn't look like anything mechanical was the cause. Took a LOT of datalogging to confirm the cause of the fault, as the codes it was throwing were generic and non-specific to the CANBus and comms codes which it should have been throwing...
Think ill see what price i can get on a dmax .unsure of auto or manual
I could go navara as I can get a good price but thought I'd change brand.
15 months ago I was in the market for a new Ute. Test drove the Hilux, Ranger and Dmax. Im a weekend warrior not a tradesman so no constant heavy load in the tray. Their all set up differently and the unladen ride varies a lot between them. Go have a drive of them before you fall in love with an idea. Probably good to look at the Triton as well. Always a value proposition and well regarded here.
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meanwhile, my Ssangyong just keeps trucking on:yuush: at half the price
Yes I guess you have to decide what’s in scope, lots of Chinese utes out there now also plus the Kia coming along.
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Autos are so much nicer to drive than manuals, I don’t know why anyone even considered manuals these days.
I’ve heard from a Nissan mechanic to stay away from the new Navara.
Not sure if I’d be keen on a hybrid hilux, I’d be sticking to a standard diesel one. Most people buy a Toyota because of their proven reliability rather than all the bells and whistles.
I work on mine sites in WA and 95% on vehicles on site are Toyota’s. Land cruisers, prados and hilux’s, very rarely do you ever see a ranger.
I don’t think you guys have much idea of what the Hilux “hybrid” system actually is. It is not that much different to a standard diesel Hilux. It effectively just has an electric motor belt driving the crankshaft on the standard diesel engine, and a small 48V battery under a rear seat to power the electric motor.
Totally different to the hybrid system in other Toyotas, and cannot run on electricity alone.
Which means that for everything EXCEPT stop-start driving in traffic the system is completely useless, and only costing you money in fuel burn and wear and tear due to the extra weight you are lugging around and that extra weight simply costs you payload. Completely stupid and ill-conceived, incompetently executed and only good for the advertising teams to spout crap at you. It is really that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauer
What Toyota should have done, was incorporate a motor assembly into the driveshaft or on the rear diff or the back of the transfer case so that the thing could be utilised to help the vehicle off the line reducing wear and tear and provide some additional engine braking ability again minimising wear and tear. As it stands, unless you are an 'urban warrior' or your job is in town in peak and stop-start traffic you are paying huge $$$ for useless weight.
Also, that small 48v battery isn't under the rear seat, it's under the rear tray and apparently has to come out to allow things like towbars to be fitted. A couple of the hybrid hiluxes have created issues with the anti-theft setup and the 48v batteries not liking being removed which stopped the hybrid system from functioning as the anti theft setup refused to play once the battery was refitted and had to be replaced/reset/farted about with to make it work again.
The one we looked at was definitely under the seat ?Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
Dmax manual owner here. goes well but gutted the tyres scrubbed out at 25k as wheel alignment was off from factory.
Just about everything you’ve written there is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
The electric motor does assist the vehicle off the line as the electric motor is also driving the crankshaft when you’re accelerating. I don’t understand why you think putting the electric motor further down the drivetrain would be more efficient.
The electric motor, like all hybrids is a motor/generator combined so it does provide a measure of engine braking under deceleration as the engine is driving a generator to recharge the battery. You don’t get this energy from nothing, it has to come from increased deceleration. This is a pretty fundamental concept for any hybrid and to claim it somehow doesn’t work for the Hilux is certainly questionable.
You are completely incorrect about the placement of the battery. It is under a rear seat. You need to stop reading Facebook mate, the battery does not need to be removed to install a towbar. That is just complete bollocks.
Many modern cars have issues with disconnecting batteries, this is not unique to Toyota. I’m not sure why you would want to disconnect the 48V battery as it is not something you can service your self in any way.
either way all that extra system is another failure point imagine in 10 years time 2x the shit to worry about braking down, most modern cars are to complicated for their own good use to be just the euro stuff now its all of them
Mate has 2002*Hilux with 5hundy on clock. His sil chewing his ear about needing an upgrade. Response...does your new work Hilux have 3 dead deer on the back tray.*Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
I’ve got a 22 Hilux which is the last of them before Hybrid. It wasn’t as flash as the others at the time which was reflected in it being about 10k cheaper to its equivalent competitors at the time. I like the simplicity of it though. It’s a solid truck that I feel happy to hold onto as long as I want to. The Dmax for all i’ve seen is a solid vehicle too. I have driven my hilux alongside my father in laws dmax on the same day a few times. His dmax is nicer inside with a bit more tech and nicer steering but my hilux is stronger in the engine department. Not sure if I would do a hybrid hilux, haven’t looked at them so can’t speak to it.
I personally never considered any 2.0L ute. I’ve never been a fan of the smaller displacement pumping out the same performance figures.
Same, that’s why I’ll stick to my 3.2 Ranger, dealer rings occasionally asking if I want to trade up, I keep telling him when they bring the 3.0 V6 in the XLT I’ll think about itQuote:
Originally Posted by stagstalker
Maybe in the next couple.weeks there will be a run out or a special in regards to new year
sales. I'll go up to whangarei this week have a look around.
You tell that to the Toyota dealer that used that as an excuse as to why the hybrid system was inoperative after fitting a towbar at presale. No facebook there mate at all. The claim was that disconnecting the hybrid system triggered the antitheft setup requiring the battery to be replaced. If it is bollocks as you say, nail in the coffin of that dealer for spouting shite - top Toyota service (again).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauer
And the electric system in the Hilux hybrid does not offer any form of engine braking assistance at all, period - tested with a max weight trailer on behind the vehicle. Complete crap. Manual 3.2L Ranger has some (but not a huge amount) of engine braking, 3.2L auto ranger not as much as the manual but still a little, the biturbos no noticeable braking effect, hilux non-hybrid (but earlier gen vehicle) had between the ranger 3.2L manual and auto's and the hilux hybrid just had nothing. Basically freewheeled, even with a hydraulic override trailer behind the coupling did not activate the trailer's brakes and the vehicle just ran away (this with the transmission in 'D', just driving for the auto's, manual ranger either 3rd or 4th selected to suit). The only vehicle that did not end up with any temperature increase on the brake discs with the hydraulic override brakes after this test was the hilux hybrid, indicating no applied hydraulic caliper pressure and thus no braking effort on the trailer at all. For those not understanding how override couplings work, the trailer compresses a spring in the coupling if it runs into the rear of the tow vehicle which pushes on the trailer brake operating cylinder to create hydraulic pressure in the brake system. So if the vehicle has engine braking, the trailer will run forward and apply the brakes. No brakes applied, no engine braking - simple.
So either the hilux used during this was defective or the design is crap, and the dealer is happy with the performance of the thing so... I personally would not have been, uses a heap of fuel for what the job it's doing is and it's had more than it's fair share of dealer induced clusters. Much cheaper than some of the other options though. Can't comment on the design assisting vehicle starting off the line - I have not experienced this at any point and towing trailers with it doesn't show any noticeable improvement over the non-hybrid hiluxes. Putting the motor further down the line allows it to offer a LOT more assistance without wear and risk to components further up, simple. The transmission is now a weak point in the Hilux hybrid design - placing the electric system after this protects the transmission - simple. If that is hard to understand - well...
disagree completely. manual is the way to go especially if towing something that gets a bit wobbly. engine braking is great on manualsQuote:
Originally Posted by Savage1
of course theres worse things than slush boxes there is cvt! and even worse ev's
Auto's are easier in stop-start traffic, but for 'work' purposes off road and heavy towing the control factor that a manual transmission offers just can't be overlooked in my opinion. Actually it's not the transmission - it's actually the foot operating control system (the clutch) that is the bit.
As far as the original question, if I was buying a vehicle through a dealer the main question I would be asking is how user-friendly is the dealer. I have been involved with so many issues with new vehicle and second hand vehicle purchases in the last 15 or so years where the dealer has just been useless or worse that I'm more interested in what sort of problems I'm going to have with the dealer and dealer service types than the actual vehicle. Provided that it will do the job of course!
I was very pleased to be driving a manual when the caravan tow hitch broke last week, kept off the brakes and just used the engine to slow us down and then the clutch at the last minute and brakes the very last.
It kept us under control and in my opinion stopped the caravan from rolling.
With my 3.2 auto ranger I just put in into manual or tiptronic mode or whatever you call it when towing heavy stuff down hill.
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I have been driving a new Hilux at work recently and doing a bit of steepish off road stuff. Using the auto transmission "manually" is ok but there is a big lag between changing down gears and it actually happening, and sometimes it seems to have a mind of it's own when it comes to what gear it thinks you should be in???
Commentary on WRC for 2925Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
I can't even imagine anyone else coming close to his level of driving, as he feels like the WRC equivalent of Max Verstappen. Hankook will replace Pirelli as the official tire supplier, and the hybrid system will become a thing of the past as increasing repair costs have become a serious concern for the teams.
Yeah, I've had that on a fairly steep downhill gravel road into a tight almost 90deg corner and a single lane bridge (where you are the give way driver as the other side has no visibility until you are on the bridge approach). The auto box decided to try to change down as I was braking to roll over the steep stuff - no manual option just the older style D plus numbers type. As it downshifted I rolled over the lump and the road steepened up and left me relying on the truck's brakes and the electric/hydraulic brakes on the trailer while the thing tried to run away and the transmission tried to work out what gear it needed to be in. In the end it was OK as nothing was coming, but I rolled onto the bridge at about 10Km/H and had no chance of stopping at the give way line should I have had to. Manual override of the auto would have been better as I wouldn't have shifted there most likely but it still takes longer to change gear than with a manual type box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
The newer Kia's have a servo operated clutch mated with a manual 8-speed I think, which is a new wrinkle in the transmission type complaints. Be interesting to see if that comes out in the new Kia truck, Iveco have been using them for years.
I got our 22 hilux in auto. I was manual through and through before that. After owning this one for near three years now i’ll never be back to a manual. We are well over halfway through towing our 5.5m boat plus a full ute load of gear the length of the country at the moment for our Christmas holiday - 14 hours on the road towing it today - zero complaints. Bloody happy I wasn’t changing gears all day lol.
Done a few big trips between the Manawatu and the very top of the Coromandel Peninsula towing our 20ft caravan too. Eats it up.
Yeah I'm always owned a manual. I'll take rh auto for a drive. See what the dealers come up with 2mrw.