Thread: new 70 series

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

holy moly you got that completely around the wrong way - my argument was only against auto gear box in a 4x4- I am very much a man of the land thank you

Come on. With an auto its easier to steer and hold a beer at the same time.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Come on. With an auto its easier to steer and hold a beer at the same time.

well I have a huge back ground in 4x4 and give me a manual gearbox every day - if you are in deep shit and you need to move just a little bit a clutch gives better control - its positive feel against the mushy feel of an auto - look at what the dedicated 4x4 guys run aint no autos

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

well I have a huge back ground in 4x4 and give me a manual gearbox every day - if you are in deep shit and you need to move just a little bit a clutch gives better control - its positive feel against the mushy feel of an auto - look at what the dedicated 4x4 guys run aint no autos

I'm with tahr on this!
Whether manual or auto there are pros and cons in the mud.
And yep in the mud most days

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Originally Posted by andyanimal31

I'm with tahr on this!
Whether manual or auto there are pros and cons in the mud.
And yep in the mud most days

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There's not a single manual in the national 4x4 series now, simply put autos have come so far, the brain has so much to compute in milliseconds and we have so much power.


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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

well I have a huge back ground in 4x4 and give me a manual gearbox every day - if you are in deep shit and you need to move just a little bit a clutch gives better control - its positive feel against the mushy feel of an auto - look at what the dedicated 4x4 guys run aint no autos

I have been running auto 4x4s for almost 20 years.If you want to creep forward you put your left foot on the brake,increase the revs a bit and slowly release the brake.Gives way more control than trying to slip a clutch.Auto box is better all round for off roading/towing/driveability.

No way I would go back to a manual.I honestly looked at a autobox for my Unimog when I decided to upgrade the gearbox that was in it.The reason I didnt was because I couldnt get any reliable info on what the conversion was like.

Originally Posted by norsk

I have been running auto 4x4s for almost 20 years.If you want to creep forward you put your left foot on the brake,increase the revs a bit and slowly release the brake.Gives way more control than trying to slip a clutch.Auto box is better all round for off roading/towing/driveability.

No way I would go back to a manual.I honestly looked at a autobox for my Unimog when I decided to upgrade the gearbox that was in it.The reason I didnt was because I couldnt get any reliable info on what the conversion was like.

Fark no, just no. Auto boxes for towing with the modern electrically selected 4wd systems that you can't put into L4 with the front hubs disengaged are just arse. As soon as you try and reverse a heavy trailer up and around a corner (especially starting off in that condition) you're almost duty bound to have it stall on you. The VW's with the 10-speed box were the absolute worst for this, so high geared in reverse.

At least with a clutch you have the option of punishing the poor little grabby thing to get the job done, but the problem here is the modern dual mass flywheels really take to that sort of treatment. Mechanics friends, those things. This is the issue with modern gear, the older auto's were garbage for shifting and performance but usually had a half decent reverse ratio. The older manuals were fitted with tougher clutches and flywheels, and usually came with manual freehubs which gave the option of L4 tractor mode (as long as you were gentle with the axles). Compounding the problem, the older utes were usually running a 2500kg tow rating vs 3500Kg on the newer options.

Originally Posted by No.3

Fark no, just no. Auto boxes for towing with the modern electrically selected 4wd systems that you can't put into L4 with the front hubs disengaged are just arse. As soon as you try and reverse a heavy trailer up and around a corner (especially starting off in that condition) you're almost duty bound to have it stall on you. The VW's with the 10-speed box were the absolute worst for this, so high geared in reverse.

At least with a clutch you have the option of punishing the poor little grabby thing to get the job done, but the problem here is the modern dual mass flywheels really take to that sort of treatment. Mechanics friends, those things. This is the issue with modern gear, the older auto's were garbage for shifting and performance but usually had a half decent reverse ratio. The older manuals were fitted with tougher clutches and flywheels, and usually came with manual freehubs which gave the option of L4 tractor mode (as long as you were gentle with the axles). Compounding the problem, the older utes were usually running a 2500kg tow rating vs 3500Kg on the newer options.

Guess it depends on what type are car you are talking about and how much horsepower you have?
I cant reverse a trailer up an asphalt drive in my Silverado in L4 because it will rip the Asphalt off on a turn,but I dont need to use low on tarmac anyhow.

Originally Posted by norsk

Guess it depends on what type are car you are talking about and how much horsepower you have?
I cant reverse a trailer up an asphalt drive in my Silverado in L4 because it will rip the Asphalt off on a turn,but I dont need to use low on tarmac anyhow.

Factory amarok, colorado, hilux and ranger utes - with things like 2.5ton diggers on trailers and 3500Kg boats (which are sods of things to tow due to the parachute effect combining with the weight factor). Work ok until you try and go backwards uphill and then throw a corner backing maneuver into the brew. Reverse should in theory be the same as 1st, but they aren't and I've never been able to work out why.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

well I have a huge back ground in 4x4 and give me a manual gearbox every day - if you are in deep shit and you need to move just a little bit a clutch gives better control - its positive feel against the mushy feel of an auto - look at what the dedicated 4x4 guys run aint no autos

That’s just not true mate.

Back in the day… then maybe, but these days a modern auto is superior to a manual in almost every way.

The control the modern automatic gearbox gives the driver in the really serious stuff is significantly better and safer than a manual gearbox. In a manual, if you’re hung up on a really steep incline with limited traction on one or more wheels with the suspension articulating opposite ways front to rear, and a shed load of weight, if you come to a dead stop like it or not, and have to put the clutch in and use the brakes, you’ve got problems. Gravity is a bitch. A proper 4WD automatic gearbox largely overcomes that kind of scenario and removes the need to keep on going regardless.

The only downside to an automatic gearbox is how complex they are technically, with the consequent risk of component failure of some kind. If an auto gearbox fails in the middle of nowhere, you are going nowhere (looking at you, Ford & Land Rover). A manual gearbox is more robust in that sense.

Yes this is one of those issues that really comes down to user preference, but having done all the hardest stuff you can do in Africa and Australia, lots in N America and regularly here in the horrible papa hill country of the CNI, if I was to go and do it all again then I would select an automatic gearbox without question.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

That’s just not true mate.

Back in the day… then maybe, but these days a modern auto is superior to a manual in almost every way.

The control the modern automatic gearbox gives the driver in the really serious stuff is significantly better and safer than a manual gearbox. In a manual, if you’re hung up on a really steep incline with limited traction on one or more wheels with the suspension articulating opposite ways front to rear, and a shed load of weight, if you come to a dead stop like it or not, and have to put the clutch in and use the brakes, you’ve got problems. Gravity is a bitch. A proper 4WD automatic gearbox largely overcomes that kind of scenario and removes the need to keep on going regardless.

The only downside to an automatic gearbox is how complex they are technically, with the consequent risk of component failure of some kind. If an auto gearbox fails in the middle of nowhere, you are going nowhere (looking at you, Ford & Land Rover). A manual gearbox is more robust in that sense.

Yes this is one of those issues that really comes down to user preference, but having done all the hardest stuff you can do in Africa and Australia, lots in N America and regularly here in the horrible papa hill country of the CNI, if I was to go and do it all again then I would select an automatic gearbox without question.

Okay but I would still love a landcruiser

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

well I have a huge back ground in 4x4 and give me a manual gearbox every day - if you are in deep shit and you need to move just a little bit a clutch gives better control - its positive feel against the mushy feel of an auto - look at what the dedicated 4x4 guys run aint no autos

I USED TO THINK this way too Barry...but not any more..we bought a 2.7 terrano with an auto in it...and no way would I go back to manual...there is only ONE thing better about a manual than an auto...you can tow start it.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

there is only ONE thing better about a manual than an auto...you can tow start it.

And it's more fun.