Thread: no lead from 2021

this how been coming since non-toxic shot came in for 12g,no one was bringing in non-toxic for the 12g until they had to.there will be some good cheap 20g's for sale in the next few year's,time to start saving guy's

Ironically the US is finding that steel is worse than lead in waterways. it rusts and turns the water orange.

fishing sinkers will be next

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Ironically the US is finding that steel is worse than lead in waterways. it rusts and turns the water orange.

I can remember saying that years ago when steel was first introduced here.

Originally Posted by Danger Mouse

Ironically the US is finding that steel is worse than lead in waterways. it rusts and turns the water orange.

If it's possible,could you please reference or produce and article pertaining to that.Not saying it's not true at all.We use steel shot,as we have too,and I have discussed that very issue with game/bird managnent here in Oregon,their take is more damage from lead than from steel.The lesser of the two evils.

What scientific studies have been carried out in NZ that have findings the same as overseas?
Different environments!
Sure shallow lakes you may have a problem. But in general crock of s***!

Why are country's now bring lead back for shooting?

I recon we should all shoot with 1080 doc sees no problem with dropping that in our waterways more damage being done there

Does anyone hunt gamebirds with a 10 gauge or no of enyone who does. Does this apply to 16 gauges cus there fek all 16 gauge rounds let alone steel

Here is a link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14567226

Here is the article summary on the link. Speaks for itself. Would you feed one of these ducks your kids, or to your dog?

J Wildl Dis. 2003 Jul;39(3):638-48.

Acute toxicity of lead, steel, and an iron-tungsten-nickel shot to mallard ducks (Anas platyrhynchos).
Brewer L1, Fairbrother A, Clark J, Amick D.

Author information
1 EBA, Inc., P.O. Box 554, 2900 Quakenbush Road, Snow Camp, North Carolina 27349, USA.

Abstract
Twenty mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) of both sexes were dosed by oral gavage with Heavi-Shot (H-S; Environ-Metal, Inc., Sweet Home, Oregon, USA) pellets, 20 with steel shot, and 10 with lead (Pb) pellets, all of equal size. All pellets were fired from a shotgun into an absorbent material, retrieved, and weighed prior to introduction into the ducks. Birds were fed whole kernel corn and grit and observed for signs of toxicity for 30 days following dosing. Hevi-Shot pellets lost an average of 6.2% of their mass and steel shot pellets lost 57% of their mass in the birds' gizzards. Almost all (90%) of the Pb shot dosed birds died before the end of the study, while no mortality was observed in the steel or H-S dosed groups. Even though total food consumption differed between the H-S and steel shot groups, mean bird weight change was not different. There were no significant morphologic or histopathologic abnormalities of the liver and kidney in the H-S and steel shot groups. Results indicated that mallards dosed orally with eight No. 4 H-S pellets were not adversely affected over a 30-day period, and that H-S provides another environmentally safe nontoxic shot for use in waterfowl hunting.

PMID: 14567226 DOI: 10.7589/0090-3558-39.3.638 [Indexed for MEDLINE]

Originally Posted by Cordite

Here is a link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14567226

Here is the article summary on the link. Speaks for itself. Would you feed one of these ducks your kids, or to your dog?

J Wildl Dis. 2003 Jul;39(3):638-48.

Acute toxicity of lead, steel, and an iron-tungsten-nickel shot to mallard ducks (Anas platyrhynchos).
Brewer L1, Fairbrother A, Clark J, Amick D.

Author information
1 EBA, Inc., P.O. Box 554, 2900 Quakenbush Road, Snow Camp, North Carolina 27349, USA.

Abstract
Twenty mallards (Anas platyrhynchos) of both sexes were dosed by oral gavage with Heavi-Shot (H-S; Environ-Metal, Inc., Sweet Home, Oregon, USA) pellets, 20 with steel shot, and 10 with lead (Pb) pellets, all of equal size. All pellets were fired from a shotgun into an absorbent material, retrieved, and weighed prior to introduction into the ducks. Birds were fed whole kernel corn and grit and observed for signs of toxicity for 30 days following dosing. Hevi-Shot pellets lost an average of 6.2% of their mass and steel shot pellets lost 57% of their mass in the birds' gizzards. Almost all (90%) of the Pb shot dosed birds died before the end of the study, while no mortality was observed in the steel or H-S dosed groups. Even though total food consumption differed between the H-S and steel shot groups, mean bird weight change was not different. There were no significant morphologic or histopathologic abnormalities of the liver and kidney in the H-S and steel shot groups. Results indicated that mallards dosed orally with eight No. 4 H-S pellets were not adversely affected over a 30-day period, and that H-S provides another environmentally safe nontoxic shot for use in waterfowl hunting.

PMID: 14567226 DOI: 10.7589/0090-3558-39.3.638 [Indexed for MEDLINE]

That is rather misleading. How much shot were they force fed and how does that compare to the amount of lead ingested by birds in the wild? There was a study done here and it worked out that with the sub guage shotguns the likelihood of finding any lead shot in a bird was something like 4/100th of 1%.

It is more about politics to show they are doing something as they push for cleaner waterways from other polluters.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

That is rather misleading. How much shot were they force fed and how does that compare to the amount of lead ingested by birds in the wild? There was a study done here and it worked out that with the sub guage shotguns the likelihood of finding any lead shot in a bird was something like 4/100th of 1%.

It is more about politics to show they are doing something as they push for cleaner waterways from other polluters.

I get the 410 exemption to get kids started but what about people who physicly cant use the 12 and the 410 wouldn't not be useful to for their waterfowling or goose hunting.
seems just as much consideration should be given to keeping older and frail hunters in the field as well.
they know no ones gonna bring in 20/16/28 steel they f&g just don't give a monkeys.
after all duckshooters are nothing but a poor returni and a pain in the arse.
all ways wanting ducks to hunt and places to put up maimais.
hassling us and doc to keep our creeks waterways and tracks clear anyone would think they pay a 100 buks for the priveledge.
ooh oops

Im probably going to get slammed for this but all you pro lead guys need to move on. Its fucking boring to listen too. We have shot hundreds of ducks season after season since the ban was introduced. Sure it took a bit of getting used too
with different speeds and chokes etc but I reckon it kills as well as anything else when used correctly . By used correctly I mean the right shot charge for the game , Speed , Choke and marksmanship. Concealment is key. Most of my ducks are shot within 15-25 m . Its not going to change and to be frank there are much bigger issues to worry about like firearms amendment recommendations. Are we all going to be crying years after the fact that our semi auto's are gone ?

I dont really give a shit what I shoot out the end of the barrel but I hunt with a 28ga and a 20ga. I would ask where can I buy the non-toxic loads for these?? Anyone................................Anyone...... ..................no.

When / if they are available at what cost?

I once got hold of a 1lb bottle of "Nice shot" ,from the USA, which was great stuff but it worked out at $7 worth of shot per cartridge which for duck shooting is madness @ 16 1oz reloads from a 1lb. It was great stuff and killed really well but at a cost.


Nice Shot Inc

Originally Posted by Nathan F

Im probably going to get slammed for this but all you pro lead guys need to move on. Its fucking boring to listen too. We have shot hundreds of ducks season after season since the ban was introduced. Sure it took a bit of getting used too
with different speeds and chokes etc but I reckon it kills as well as anything else when used correctly . By used correctly I mean the right shot charge for the game , Speed , Choke and marksmanship. Concealment is key. Most of my ducks are shot within 15-25 m . Its not going to change and to be frank there are much bigger issues to worry about like firearms amendment recommendations. Are we all going to be crying years after the fact that our semi auto's are gone ?

I've never shot game birds with lead. However if changes are made then they must be justified and reasonable. Would you like the powers that be to just say you can no longer have any firearms with no reasons given? With lead shot in sub gauges the numbers simply do not stack up for a ban. So why has it been pushed? It is certainly not justified nor reasonable. This points more to it being used as a political lever for something else.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

I've never shot game birds with lead. However if changes are made then they must be justified and reasonable. Would you like the powers that be to just say you can no longer have any firearms with no reasons given? With lead shot in sub gauges the numbers simply do not stack up for a ban. So why has it been pushed? It is certainly not justified nor reasonable. This points more to it being used as a political lever for something else.

I don't know. I can see pro's and con's on both sides. Im not big on conspiracy theories.

Originally Posted by Nathan F

I don't know. I can see pro's and con's on both sides. Im not big on conspiracy theories.

I'm the same on the pros and cons side. From relevant studies there isn't actually that much in favour of steel. One of the big things was the fertility rate of birds dropped with lead in their system. Yet there was also evidence that steel shot resulted in a lot more wounded birds and as a result the number of dead birds increased. The drop in overall bird numbers through the wounding tended to outweighed the drop in fertility. So if the numbers didn't stack up then why was the lead ban introduced?

Any argument about keeping lead out of the environment is really quite irrelevant, it is mined and processed from the environment. It is not a man made substance.