Really enjoying this read Thanks you knowledgeable persons:cool:
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Really enjoying this read Thanks you knowledgeable persons:cool:
[QUOTE=R93;300396]That's one bird that seems to thrive on the coast considering all the local and regular poisoning. No idea why.
There are trees in kowhitirangi that you can count literally hundreds in, when they are budding.
Anyone one heard about the Glenorchy poison.
Smashed an already under threat whitetail herd.
Its gotta stop. You see ads in our paper here with "Save our birds" heading all the poison notifications in local notices and papers. Kids at school are being desensitized to 1080 as well.
[QUOTE]
Pigeons, tui, bellbirds, don't do to bad under the 1080 regime as they are fruit, nectar, leaf, flower grazers. The insect, seed eaters and those that hunt in the forest or eat carrion are the ones that are going missing at an alarming rate.
The Glenorcy Whitetail herd has taken a hiding alright. A scientist led a group including DOC personal into the drop zone on a fact finding mission after the drop. They found four dead whitetail, one possum and one mouse in a 4 square kilometre area grid searched.
Correct me if I am wrong, maths is not a strong point of mine. But the block poisoned is 20,000 hectares so that equates to a loss of around 50 whitetail if you were to equate the losses over the whole area.
This is not verified yet but DOC exercised quite a bit of control over the story that was released. IE, DOC are satisfied that only a small number of whitetail deer were killed) But what has not been quantified yet is the number of dead native birds found dead in the grid search.
I like this post 'Mauser' Understand we are not looking to pick a fight with the pro 1080 members, but are simply responding to a challenge by one of them to provide proof of our claims that 1080 is a bloody dirty way to treat our forests, birds, fish and animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
I reckon 50 whitetail would be conservative.
50 is way to much at any rate considering the state of the herd prior to the drop.
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Being an atheist its odd to use a bible quote but......Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
Answer not a fool according to his folly. Do not lower yourself to the fool's level by answering his silly questions or arguing with him as if he were a sensible man. Lest thou also be like unto him; lest you be led to utter folly yourself or to side with him in his opinions and practices.
Fellas, Ive got more in this that most of you.
I'm an active hunter, I enjoy venison as much as the next man. I'm in the same boat as the bulk of us too as I (prefer) to hunt public land.
I'm also a keen fly fisher. Have been since I could ride a bicycle too (@Rushy).
I have three awesome little girls who always ask for me to take them out into the wilds to chase beast or fish.
So far the only really worthy replies have come from @Aly who at least has attempted to offer a solution. Will she be the only one?
Harping on about someone who accidentally poisoned himself nearly 50 years ago has no relevance what so ever. Had he ingested cyanide, brodi or anything else the end result will have been the same unfortunately. How a jar of jam in the blokes house has any relevance is beyond me or did it fall from a hell bucket into his jam jar?
Then theres the tin foil hat brigade. Claiming mass corruption, backhanders and laziness as the root of the problem. Seriously? DOC are currently removing huts, deferring track maintenance and laying off staff simply because they have no money. Ive actually taken the time to talk to some of these guys and they have more passion for our forest than most anti hand-wringers combined. As an ex NZDA president Ive also spoken to a number of people at both our local AHB and DOC. These guys have tried desperately to get trapping going to limit the use of aerial 1080. The did make some headway in the Whirinaki/Te Urewera in conjunction with a local tribe but even this was initially marginally successful but eventually failed. This is relatively easy country with a more temperate climate. Hows APNP or other high altitude country going to really sustain trapping.
I dearly would love to see 1080 taken off the menu but having an anti group hug online is not the solution. Personally I hope we can either modify possum behaviour through either a GM solution or organic option (disease/parasite/virus) but thats a whole new Pandoras box.
Cost be damned? Bull shit I say. The NZ taxpayer is bled enough at present and will not carry any more than it has already.
1080 certainly has some collateral damage and I too am impacted by it but, its a burden Im willing to carry if it means in 10 or so years I can take my kids out to see what I see now it will be worth it.
On a side note. I see very few outside of the hunting community belly aching about 1080. Maybe its the circles I hang in? Ive often heard the excuse of 1080 being the reason why the "hunter" had no luck. Haha what a piss poor excuse. Get the can of V out of your hand, lose the tyre round your gut and get on with it. Most deer don't get a good feed within 10m of the carpark fella.
Deer by-kill we need to pull our head in on. They don't stop breeding and at present its almost stupid the amount of donks around.
Deer repellant? yeah good idea. Maybe those of us in NZDA need to put a poker up the clowns who represent us to accept the realities of the situation. NATEX opposal of aerial poisons is unrealistic. Swallow their pride and get some concessions rather than none. Who of us has written a submission for deer repellant anyway? I have, bet most of you haven't.
I've been hunting and fishing both sides of our local ranges (Ruahine and Kaweka) and eating what Ive taken regularly. These ranges see their fair share of 1080 too. Am I concerned? Not really. So why now with the dog and pony show?
Attachment 29647
Deer repellent, Bird repellent????.... none of it works. How about now we try cattle repellent, Sheep repellent or even Fish Repellent now
KJ I look at from the point of view it is just plain wrong to dose the country side with 1080. I can only come to the conclusion it is driven by money. There are many other ways that could be developed to control pests we do not desire! there is not the will, it needs an independent inquiry.
Our local NZDA is starting to get a reasonable relationship with doc @rogers.270, And doc have even footed the bill to fly in large numbers of recreational hunters into ares they believe have high numbers of deer/goats etc.
The problems I personally have with 1080 are mainly that, when I walk threw never 1080d bush with a fair few possums/stoats/rats/mice the bird life is incredible.when I walk threw regularly 1080d bush it is literally dead, very little to no bird life.
Also as a hunter and conservationist I struggle to see the logic that our slow breeding native birds will recover from their by kill when the rats and mice will be back next year.
And its bloody inhumane, its a terrible death.
Dead deer found after 1080 drop | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International NewsQuote:
Originally Posted by R93
You seem quite proud to try to have taken the poor attitude to other contributing members of this forum, judging by the overall tone of your post. That is something I think you need to look inwards about.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwijames
Your quote re deer repellent above shows how narrow and flawed your ideas are and in fact you have not provided a single verifiable fact to back any of your opinions.
Deer repellent, even if it worked, does not protect anything else in the environment from the deleterious effects of 1080 poison. Your controlling body NATEX at least has the common sense to comprehend this fact and realise that to support the usually ineffective deer repellent also meant supporting the serious by-kill and general harm to the environment that 1080 poison use creates.
I suggest to you and others who want to know more about the detail and facts go visit the websites
1080science.co.nz
www.1080.org.nz
Cheers :)
Attachment 29673
To hell with other arguments do we have the right to kill these animals in such an Inhumane fashion.
A deer takes around 2 to 3 days to die from 1080 poisoning. A traumatic death as evidence shows.
The top animals has been poisoned. The experience show in its eyes.
The bottom photo.. The deer has been shot
[ATTACH=CONFIG]29674[/ATTACH
Top..The lungs of a deer that died of 1080 poisoning
Bottom... The lungs of a deer that has been shot.
My best mate is a vet. Has been for 30 yrs. He hates 1080 but reckons it just makes quadrapeds lie down and go to sleep.
After a drop in the Landsborough in 2005 I was up doing a job. I was there 2 days after the drop. I seen 9 dead deer out on river flats.
Seen a hind and a yearling lying side by side in the middle of one flat. Looked like they were out having a munch and just tipped over dead.
A week prior to the drop we seen over 40 deer out on the same flat.
The Landsborough has never recovered from that drop imo as far as deer go.
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Right on
[ATTACH=CONFIG]29719[/ATTACH
Makes you wonder doesn't, We know 1080 cause infertility and testicular effects on animals according to our Own Ministry of Health.
This stuff has been going into our water a spreading through our food chain for 60 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribe
All is not lost though our kind friends in Australia have offered to help out. We just have to send the word they tell us.
I am glad 7mm that you did your best and got a head start on the Aussies. When this become better know we are going to see no end of shit. Seriously though we may even have to offer NZ as a leave centre for Aussie Footy teams on RnR.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
Attachment 29765
Our Cartoonists are onto it this week. From the Sunday Star Times
Unfortunately only 16000 voted for the Ban 1080 party and the bloody Councils are poisoning easy trapping areas also.:pissed off:
There seems to be nothing we can do to stop the shit poisoning our paradise.
This is the crap going on here near our river.:sick:
Attachment 29766
Oh, come on. That was March. And not 1080, and there is a box un-ticked. They weren’t even trying. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
Still pisses me off,I can't even pronounce that last poison. The willow trees are looking good at the river. Now is the time we usualy go hard with spotlights on the coons. Moonlit nights with fresh willow leaves growing.But there are bugger all possums left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
@Scribe if these possums poisoned by the above poisons not 1080 and fell in the river. would the trout eating the insects ,maggots etc be infected.
@Tahr we have a tray of trout fillets here next time your over.:D Swap ya for a tray of venison:wtfsmilie:
I haven't been up for a few weeks because it's lambing. But I will get some venny to you when I get one next. Off after Tahr in a couple of weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
Brodifacoum is a bad one 'Dundee' The Regional Council poisoned Rangitoto and Motutapu Island in the Hauraki Gulf
That poison spread right down through the food chain. 300 pukekos and 250 paradise ducks they cleaned out. A lot of baits dropped on the cliffs fell into the water and were eaten by fish which in turn were eaten by seabirds that washed up on the Coromandel Coast here.
Several hundred penguin were handed in dead after the Operation. DOC said starvation, But when finally forced to test them they found that 43% did contain brodifacoum. You can probably still google "Brodifacoum drop on Rangitoto Island and find the texts.
Brodifacoum is far more persistent in the Environment than 1080. A few years back a truck load of it went into the sea at Kaikoura.
3 years later the shell fish were still loaded. I have the papers for this somewhere.
Worse though is it persists in animals such as wild pigs for up to 3 years. Pigs caught in the Marlborough sounds 3 years after a brodifacoum drop were found to be still loaded. Wild pigs clean up all the dead possums rats and dead birds so they are very susceptible.
Aerial drops of Brodifacoum on Mainland NZ are illegal for that same reason.
Bait stations are supposed to be safer but cattle eat bait that has been scraped out on to the ground. Pigs eat poisoned possums, Morepork and weka eat poisoned rats and mice.
Insects seem to be very fond of Brodifacoum. If you investigate the bait in the boxes that have been out for awhile you will find it crawling with insects.
You just have to Google "Brodifacoum Drop On Rangitoto Island" Dundee
Campbell Live makes DOC squirm when he catches them out lying about testing the penguins for Brodifacoum poisoning.
Cyanide we have used for years without problems. I fed my dogs possum carcasses that have been cyanided for many winters.
You could see the lieing bastard squirmming.
http://youtu.be/8Skm8f2yvNg
When tested 43% of the penguins were found to contain brodifacoum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
We still hold birds in our freezers that washed up on the Coromandel Peninsula. DOC were not interested in collecting them though when they heard we were they put there own parties out to scour the beaches to get rid of them.
A lot of dead birds have been collected by our groups on the east coast of the peninsula in early winter this year from the brodifacoum drop on Mercury Island. We have to arrange to have them tested overseas as we can no longer trust the NZ authorities.
Probably because most people realise you need more than one policy to be worth putting in parliament?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
Not saying it isn't an issue, but I don't know that forming a political party is the most effective way of getting people in power to actually think about it.
Yes 'Gravel Ben' We still think it was worth it. We got 'Ban 1080' on the ballot paper and that for us was worth it. We had a hell of a problem registering the party. The powers that be put every obstacle they could up to stop us. In the end it was in the hands of the Legal Beagals and we got there.Quote:
Originally Posted by GravelBen
Its the way we got Clyde Graf voted in as the Waikato Regional Councillor for Coromandel. Single issue pretty well. (No more 1080 in Coromandel) Everyone knew what he was standing for.
With such a short time left ( two days before registration closed) we went into the election ill prepared but we will be well prepared next time. We lost a lot of potential votes to NZ First who fielded a strong anti 1080 candidate in Richard Prosser (Good on Him) Winston has already attacked the Government over poisoning our trout eels and fresh water crayfish since the election.
A single issue party is good in many ways. They have nothing to trade away as so often happens in coalition Governments. (I will forget about this, if you back me on that) United Future have been good over the years, its thanks to them we have a Game Action Council that has some influence.
All is good though. But you don't roll a 300 million dollar a year industry without a long drawn out dirty fight.
Fair enough, some good points there.
Personally my vote would (and did) still go to a party representing a wider range of my interests, but you're obviously well aware of the pros and cons of doing things that way so good on you for having a shot.
We (mrs and I) split our party votes. 1 to 1080 and the other elsewhere. I would like to think my 18mnth daughter could walk into the bush anywhere and not fear for her health in her future. just my opinion of course :D
I shall be pleased if the next generation have daughters and not hermaphrodites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibo
Thanks for that. It would have taken more than the number who voted for Ban 1080 to switch their votes to NZ First for us to get another Member, but not very many more. However if we had had one more and the Nats one fewer, we'd be looking at an entirely different ball game as regards 1080 right now.
That said, we have a new Minister, I don't know what her stance will be but I will have a talk with her for starters as soon as we're back in Wellington.
Good of you to come to the Forum Richard. I for one would like it if you visited us more often and reported the general thinking in Parliament on subjects dear to the hunters hearts. Will you support the Game Action Council.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Prosser
Thank you.
Just a thought Mods can this thread stay live? 1080 needs to be addressed and all the other bloody poisons being dumped on our land.
It does not need to be poltical but something or someone needs to stop this green shit,I feel the more it is talked about we might get action............but i'm not holding my breathe:(
I never hold my breath over anything. The rats and possums will still be with us in a hundred years.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
NZ Herald,
To Few Rats For Planned 1080 Drop
A planned 1080 drop in South Westland has been called off as there are not enough rats.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..
I wonder what all this is about. Surely they knew how many rats were in the block before they planned the drop.
Or then again maybe they didn't
Anyone heard of helicopter missing in Kahurangi?
Yup. Heard this morning it went missing.
Is it NW wind up there cam?
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Don't tell me. There's gotta be a 1080 conspiracy in there somewhere?Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Definitely one missing since 8 am this morning according to Nelson Mail. No reports of Locator beacon.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
