Thread: How do thefts occur? (they take the safe or open it?)

As I'm getting more weaponry I'm considering beefing up security around the house. Problem is, even tho I can find info stating that firearm thefts DO happen in NZ (despite our high safe requirements) I can't find any solid info how they happened.

1) Do they rip up the safe somehow and take the entire safe with them. Or do they somehow manage to open the safe on the spot, only stealing its contents?
2) Are they usually occuring because the owner bragged too much or spoke too openly about his firearms, or is it usually more of a case that the theifs would have known no matter how quiet the owner was (for exmple by stalking cars from the gunclub, hacking trademe etc)
3) Does it only happen in houses with no alarm/cameras etc or are the theifs so pro that they aren't put off by seeing that?

I don’t think there is a common denominator.
Each crime is different, I’d imagine most are oppotunistic, rather than planned.
Your questions might be better directed at your local AO.

Most A cat safes can be forced open with a large screwdriver, crowbar or similar. Things you can often find in the garage next to the safe.

Putting the safe somewhere confined, like in a corner or cupboard helps by limiting the leverage someone can get on their crowbar.

Too many people already know you have guns.

People buying and selling guns and related items on Trademe are at particular risk. Selling guns "buyer must pick up" or " Seller allows pick ups" is asking for trouble.

Selling B or E cat safes "buyer must pick up" and saying "I'm only selling because I've brought a bigger safe" just tells everybody you have pistols or MSSAs and where to get them.

If you buy or sell any gun related items on Trademe, never allow anyone to pick up anything from your house and never get anything delivered there.

There was that guy in Dargaville who was selling stuff from his home and lost a whole pile of rifles, pistols and sub-machineguns a couple of years ago. Having the safe keys in a less secure safe than the guns didn't help. Bad guys forced open the tinny safe the keys were in and simply unlocked the gun safe.

i think it all starts with bad genes.

Originally Posted by systolic

Most A cat safes can be forced open with a large screwdriver, crowbar or similar. Things you can often find in the garage next to the safe.

Putting the safe somewhere confined, like in a corner or cupboard helps by limiting the leverage someone can get on their crowbar.

Too many people already know you have guns.

People buying and selling guns and related items on Trademe are at particular risk. Selling guns "buyer must pick up" or " Seller allows pick ups" is asking for trouble.

Selling B or E cat safes "buyer must pick up" and saying "I'm only selling because I've brought a bigger safe" just tells everybody you have pistols or MSSAs and where to get them.

If you buy or sell any gun related items on Trademe, never allow anyone to pick up anything from your house and never get anything delivered there.

There was that guy in Dargaville who was selling stuff from his home and lost a whole pile of rifles, pistols and sub-machineguns a couple of years ago. Having the safe keys in a less secure safe than the guns didn't help. Bad guys forced open the tinny safe the keys were in and simply unlocked the gun safe.

good advice, the buyer pick up thing can work if you insist on meeting them somewhere.

Originally Posted by systolic

There was that guy in Dargaville who was selling stuff from his home and lost a whole pile of rifles, pistols and sub-machineguns a couple of years ago. Having the safe keys in a less secure safe than the guns didn't help. Bad guys forced open the tinny safe the keys were in and simply unlocked the gun safe.

THanks, that's the kind of word of mouth stories I was looking for. On the one hand it feels like a mystery to me how these theft could possible occur (even before I beefed up security, I had difficultly imagining how it could possibly be stolen) but with stories like that it makes more sense. (it shocks me that someone would leave their safe keys at home while they are outside tho)

If possible, having your safe concealed in your dwelling gives you an advantage. As the saying goes: "Out of sight, out of mind".

I wouldn't have a sticker on my car eg, winchester, CZ, sako that hinted at the possibility of a firearm in the boot.

A friend had his guns stolen. He had 2 safes, an e cat (no e cat guns in it though) and a second smaller combination lock safe that was not bolted down for ammo, bolts etc and had the keys to the big safe in it. Crims broke in and nicked the combo safe, couldnt get the e cat open. Came back later once they had got the combo safe open and used the keys to get the guns.

So dont leave your keys anywhere that allows them to be uplifted I guess.

Originally Posted by GregGregGreg

THanks, that's the kind of word of mouth stories I was looking for. On the one hand it feels like a mystery to me how these theft could possible occur (even before I beefed up security, I had difficultly imagining how it could possibly be stolen) but with stories like that it makes more sense. (it shocks me that someone would leave their safe keys at home while they are outside tho)

Not really word of mouth. Here's a list of the guns stolen. I found it through a Google search on Dargaville Guns Burglary.

Imagine loosing all those over letting unknown people know you have guns and not storing your keys properly.

Police release list of stolen firearms as enquiries into Dargaville burglary continue
Thursday, 19 May 2016 - 3:00pm
Northland
Police investigating a burglary in which a number of firearms were stolen are releasing a list of the weapons and are asking gun collectors and owners to keep an eye out for them.

The guns were stolen from the home of a Dargaville collector on Tuesday. The owner returned home at around 5.30pm to find that his house had been burgled and the guns taken.

Police conducted a forensic scene examination at the property and this continued throughout much of yesterday. Further enquiries after this examination have now established that a total of 15 firearms were taken.

Many of the guns are rare and are not readily available.

“Gun collectors and enthusiasts will recognise many of the makes and models and we’re releasing this list in the event that anyone who sees these advertised anywhere or who may be offered one of these for sale, will let us know.

“These are high-powered weapons and we are obviously concerned that they are out there somewhere in our community, in the hands of criminals” says Detective Inspector Kevin Burke, Northland Police.

The firearms are as follows;

Walther P99 pistol

MP5K sub Machine gun

Taurus .357 revolver

Colt .45 ACP Pistol

AKS 74U assault rifle (looks identical to AK47 but is a later model)

IDS M4 carbine

Arsenal AKM M4 assault rifle

AKM Russian assault rifle

AK74 assault rifle x 2 (looks identical to AK47 but is a later model)

Uberti Evil Roy .357 revolver x 2

Walther P38 WWII

Walther PP

M70 B1 rifle

Police are continuing to appeal for sightings of a white Station Wagon that was seen in the area shortly before the burglary was discovered.

Officers also want to hear from anyone who might have witnessed any other suspicious people or behaviour in the Dargaville area in the days leading up to the burglary.

Anyone with information is asked to contact the Whangarei Police on 09 430 4520.

Information can also be given anonymously to the organisation Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.

ENDS

Media please note: At this stage photos of these specific firearms are not available.

Beth Bates/NZ Police

With the advent of battery tools like an angle grinder etc it is so much easier to break into safes either A or E-cat. Try to put the safe in a small space or inside a cupboard bolting the safe to the floor and walls. The smaller the space the harder it is to get access. A-cat safes are very easy to break into with the most basic of tools which they find in you garage when the have already broken into your house.
Get a monitored house alarm that goes straight to your phone with cameras if poss. Call the Police straight away 111 and tell them there are firearms in the house, always say that clearly so if they don't respond you have this as proof as all calls are recorded, or if you know someone who is local call them to go round.
Never advertise the fact you have guns to anyone outside your gun friends. Tell your kids not to say anything to anyone.
Hide your keys to the safe in a place that only you would think of. For instance in a Tupperware container at the back of the food shelf. Crimes don't look for food or in a small plastic water tight container and put that in the toilet cistern.
Buy the best safe you can afford. You buy the best gun so it make sense to look after it.

Remember that half of firearms deaths in NZ are suicides so take that into account. Some part of the gun ammo bolt system needs to be inaccessible to others living in your house.

Originally Posted by Couchpotato

With the advent of battery tools like an angle grinder etc it is so much easier to break into safes either A or E-cat. Try to put the safe in a small space or inside a cupboard bolting the safe to the floor and walls. The smaller the space the harder it is to get access. A-cat safes are very easy to break into with the most basic of tools which they find in you garage when the have already broken into your house.
Get a monitored house alarm that goes straight to your phone with cameras if poss. Call the Police straight away 111 and tell them there are firearms in the house, always say that clearly so if they don't respond you have this as proof as all calls are recorded, or if you know someone who is local call them to go round.
Never advertise the fact you have guns to anyone outside your gun friends. Tell your kids not to say anything to anyone.
Hide your keys to the safe in a place that only you would think of. For instance in a Tupperware container at the back of the food shelf. Crimes don't look for food or in a small plastic water tight container and put that in the toilet cistern.
Buy the best safe you can afford. You buy the best gun so it make sense to look after it.

Battery tools are portable and effective but still nothing on corded tools we have had for years and years....not many houses /garages/sheds dont have a 220v plug so kinda misleading to say "so much easier" to break into a safe with battery tools.

Originally Posted by Bagheera

Remember that half of firearms deaths in NZ are suicides so take that into account. Some part of the gun ammo bolt system needs to be inaccessible to others living in your house.

Can I ask how you drew your conclusion on separating bolts has anything to do with reducing the number of suicides? Where are the stats that say non FAL holders are gaining access and shooting themselves?

To add, if majority of firearm suicides are from FAL holders including expired licensees, then separate bolt storage would do nothing to prevent it - They're gonna kill themselves regardless.

Make sure the keys cant be found easily a policeman I know said he was doing a safe check once and the owner picked the keys off the coat hook on the wall behind the coat and unlocked the safe. He was told to find a better place to hide them.