Thread: Sunday Arvo 22 ammo test - RWS

Recently I restocked with a brick or two each of RWS "Rifle Match" and "Pistol Match". With nothing better to do a bit of a Lot test seemed in order. Weather here is pretty miserable with intermittent showers, a gusty turbulent wind up to 20 km/h and 5 degrees. My shooting zone is in a wee hollow, it reduces wind but increases the turbulence.

I decided to dispense with the usual fouling shots, so the Rifle Match groups are cold bore. All groups are 10 shots from the benchrest at 47M (50 yards near as dammit). In these conditions I was happy to drop the odd shot from the measurement and call it "wind". However this grade of RWS is renown for "a surprise every box" so it's also likely the fliers are ammo related.

The real surprise ?? That the CZ didn't go to well with this ammo, usually it's top dog (hence it gets the top targets) but the old 1962 cheapie plain jane basic Krico 300 kicked it's arse (and everyone else's too!).

The M52 (Winchester Model 52) groups were shot with aperture sights and a dark tube of a foresight and they are bloody hard to wrangle in the low light conditions today, I'd say I could probably halve it's groups with a better foresight arrangement or a scope.

Just wondering why you shoot 10-shot groups and not 5-shot?

RWS Match & Pistol is about $17 a box, so you only need to shoot 2 targets to nearly use half the box.

I'm keeping to 5 targets of 5 shots at 50 yds... and even then I'm going through a lot of CCI Standard Velocity ($9 box on special).

My thoughts - 5 shots are a mediocre test of a rifle, if I want a good idea of what a rifle is capable of then 5x5 shot groups will actually tell me something.

10 shot groups (through rifles that are of known capability) will tell you what the ammo is like, and 20 or 50 (50 is way to rich for my blood) are better.

Every other man and his dog will post up a 5 shot group with some mid range ammo and proclaim that their rifle "shoots" but the only person they are kidding is themselves. Hunting accuracy is a bit different, minute of rabbit to the reliably effective range of a 22 (80 m or so???) Is quite different to reliably hitting a 100mm gong at 150M.

Yes - from my rimfire bench experience - when I'm digging in to see what a rifle can do I usually end with four x 5 shot consecutive groups. That's a reliable test. Single groups are often not an indicator of either rifle or shooter. Single great group can win you the championship shoot-off, but it'll never get you there. However, for checking scope or shooting in rifle you know, even a couple of 3 shot groups can easily suffice.

For our high volume Canterbury shooting conditions we find 100m is the reliable kill range on bunnies. 110 maximum. This is when shooting tens of thousands and shooting them quickly. (This is NOT going out to pop 3-4 bunnies in an evening, with alot of time to setup and dial each shot). Just make absolutely sure your rifle is very well shot in. Choose an accurate hunter capable of sub half inch at best, and averaging very close to that at 50m with its preferred hunting ammo. Some of our basic hunter 22LRs average well under 0.5" at 50m with their hunting HV ammos -some down into 0.2s and 0.3s. Given this we have confidence that with careful shooting (and alot of field practice) 100m meter shots certainly do the job. We don't expect to miss or to leave many wounded. On one site we popped over 20,000 with average range 70m. Thus all rifles were shot in at 75m, and the boys did not miss much.

Completely agree. I shoot a lot through my "PRS" 22, and I'll shoot a 20 round group just sighting in. I want to know exactly where the center of that big hole is so the majority of my shots are close to that.

Also you'll find with crappy ammo, you'll shoot an OK 5 or 10 round group, then take it out to 20 and have two or 3 fliers.

I bought 1 brick to test for the last competition (150 rounds in competition). Well after testing, sighting in and a few groups at 150, 220 and 320m, then the competition, I've got about 75 left.
Though for me I want to know exactly the performance of it so I can make good decisions when it counts.

In a session I will usually fire 10 x 5 shot groups with no pause between diagrams.
The very first learning from doing that is my group centres moved as I changed to the next duagram. Groups OK though.
Showed I had position errors so that was something I worked on and eliminated.

I blow off 10 - 15 shots when doing an ammo change except when using better RWS which uses the same lube.
Changing from cheap Eley to middle to top Eley I do the blow off as Eley uses a different lube between their bottom and top stuff.

In a morning at the range I'll usually fire around 200 rounds. Home by lunchtime.

So what is the overall conclusion?.. that 2x 10 shot targets (20 rounds), is better than 4x 5 shot targets (20 rounds), to prove accuracy in a .22 rifle or a lot # of ammunition.

I find 5 shot groups have a couple of benefits over 10 shot groups:
1 - you get to shoot twice the amount of targets for the same round count so it's more interesting.
2 - I'm after accuracy so if I shot 3 rounds and they are not a close group I lose a bit of interest - with the slight feeling of having to 'waste' another 7 rounds on what now cannot be a great group.

But as for the idea of 2x 10 groups vs 4x 5 groups for accuracy proof... I'm uncertain.

I'm shooting rifles that are throughly tested, I already have a very clear idea of their capability. I like 10 shot groups to test ammo, if I get a flier out of the group that isn't caused by wind or execution then it's gotta be the ammo. In the series in the photo it really was too windy for decent testing, but I wanted to do something . ..

Originally Posted by Tentman

I'm shooting rifles that are throughly tested, I already have a very clear idea of their capability. I like 10 shot groups to test ammo, if I get a flier out of the group that isn't caused by wind or execution then it's gotta be the ammo. In the series in the photo it really was too windy for decent testing, but I wanted to do something . ..

Yeah the idea that a 'flyer' is almost definitely the ammunition (or at least not you or the rifle), with a 10-shot group makes sense.
I usually find myself wondering 'Why' when I get a flyer with a 5 shot group.

A 5-shot rimfire group can be an absolute mind-bender when it comes to the question 'WHY?'. In the end, with some of my 5 shot groups, I just have to enjoy the confusion and be satisfied with shooting a great group once in a while.

I don't think it matters if you shoot 2 10 shots, 4 5 shots or whatever, as long as your shooting enough rounds to know what the rifles actually doing. I've been mislead by too many small groups to make this mistake anymore.
If you shoot 5 5s, and don't change your body position, then if you have one group that's slightly left, one slightly right etc, the capability of the rifle is both of those groups overlaid.

With smaller round count groups you don't shoot out your point of aim as much.

For hunting or long range, I think its also important to shoot groups at the max distance (or close) you'll shoot, that way you'll know how if performs there too.

My plain jane Krico 300 is a shooter like yours, when I'm on form. Under-rated or unknown by a lot of people.