I have rope and although I have never understood why, my grandfather taught me how to tie a hangman's noose when I was a young fellah. Now that that has come to the front of my mind I must see if I still remember how.
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Macca, had a think about your initial comments again (tighten controls and 12g), and thought that you might have been taking the piss by applying gun-control rhetoric to the police. If that was the case, my brain was obviously not in first gear yesterday.
But having read your latest comments, I don't know - it's kind of Genghis Khan meets Jane Fonda :D
+ 1 on Time to suit the crime. Some standardisation for crimes taking out the wide range of options would make things
clearer to the crims. IE: Assault PO or his dog mimimum X Years sentence. Steal car same or burglary or assault or drug crimes or whatever.
Get firmer on them and no transparency do this result = you get this.
Support Sensible Sentencing for sure.
Seen results a few times its the victims and families hurt the most and then a soft sentence to the poor crim cos he s or shes had a hard little life..
Thats the ultimate smack in the face for the victims and its bull really. Then it seems the crims get a reasonably soft ride through the prison system.. (Note "seems" have no experience at all about this)
Sisters fucking lame ex boyfriend had $15,000 worth of stolen shit, he got 3 months home d. Fucking bullshit as
ebf Most is tongue in cheek, except when Im serious. Your choice, but this should never happen to a cop, I dont go to work and expose myself to this type of treatment, when it happens to a cop hit it with a sledge hammer, No cop should be hurt or killed in doing their job,
It is unacceptable.
I don't think the problem is with lack of prison time, it's that life in prison is far to comfortable. They are in there with their mates and TV etc. Should be solitary confinement with nothing but educational books to read, you might even be able to reduce sentences if it is that much less desirable. IMHO
Most of the "hard" criminals I have met have either looked forward to prison or aren't fussed at all going back.
Pisses me off that the one assault charge that relates to assaulting Police holds less of a sentence than the equivalent common assault charge.
A bit on one news about excessive force.
ffs he was disarmed and beaten, clearly not enough force was used.
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Yeh with you on that VC. Seems that what was reported is being refuted by many good citizens.
See the thing on the news where they cut that guys hand off in mali or some place.
Missed that
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He broke the rules but they werent clear on what he broke.
Yes I did Toby. It has actually been a quite common punishment for theft in Islamic countries through the centuries. the reason it is on the news is that the Al Queda sympathisers that are trying to take control of Mali are using that sort of punishment to make the locals toe the line.
[QUOTE=veitnamcam;74280]A bit on one news about excessive force.
ffs he was disarmed and beaten, clearly not enough force was used.
No where near enough force & the wrong guy in hospital .
Almost makes me wonder if he was set up for that beating .
I'm gonna make myself unpopular and say that while it was an unfortunate outcome for the officer, he made a bad judgement call in deciding to push for an arrest. When he realised it was going sideways at the very beginning he should have backed off and waited for another day.
The only time he should really have pushed his luck with the arrest is if other members of the public etc would have been put in immediate and serious harm’s way if the guy was left to walk around.
Short answer is he fucked up and paid the price.
Typically sole charge cops are chosen (even though you actually apply for the slot) because they tend to be a little more relaxed, realistic, calm and have a bit of experience. Unfortunately I'm not seeing those traits in this example.
Everyone makes mistakes though and ultimately he got away pretty lightly given the depth of poo he got himself into.
I hope that he recovers quickly, learns from the experience and comes back an even better cop than before.
Hold on there Kiwi, the cop was tackled by a guy who ran across from the other side of the road. Then everyone pounced on him. Had he waited for backup, the guy who he had the warrant for may have bailed.
Kawhia is turning into a bad place compared to the quaint fishing town it used to be. Maybe Griff has been stationed there for ages?
Previous comments by others about prison being too nice, totally agree. It ought to be cold bare concrete floors, no windows, bad meals (with barely sufficient nutritional value) and make them work hard for no gain.
3 serious convictions = string em up. No pussy footing "oh he's had a hard life" soft touch sentences...
Peril 787b & 7mmwsm - I'm not sure if you have read and comprehended my post properly. My comments were based on facts submitted from both camps and regardless of those facts I still stand by my position.
Risk management is a factor in every job under the sun. For frontline cops, the consequences of managing the risk incorrectly are generally much higher than for say a retail assistant. I would like to think that every cop is aware of that when they sign up.
As for the guy on a warrant getting away before backup showed - who cares. Do you have any idea how many warrants are issued by the courts every week? A truck load!!!
As soon as he realised it was going pear shaped he should have backed off and sorted it another day. Instead we have what we have. It could have ended up WAY worse given he lost both his glock and taser.
In short, it was a fuck up.
Proudkiwi, it had the potential to go pear shaped irrespective of the actions or inactions of the constable. Imagine for a moment that the constable had acted as you suggest and stood down from attempting the arrest and the subject had then subsequent to leaving committed an heinous crime (assault, rape, murder). Those circumstances would attract similar criticism of the actions of the constable from certain quarters of society. The role of the Police is not an easy one and in my view they deserve far greater support from the community for the good (often thankless) work they do. I know that they choose to enter the job knowing what it entails and I for one am grateful that they do.
It was fucked up, fucked up at the lack of respect and help shown towards a Police officer.Quote:
In short, it was a fuck up.
Walking away would be a lot easier said than done with the adrenalin going, wanting to carry out your job/not wanting to empower the bastard criminals by showing both them and the public that your 'scared' (view that would be perceived) of them.
As far as I'm aware none of us were there so its all if, buts and maybes.
No one died and the gun made it back to police hands so maybe we should all just be thankful for small miracles?
Nibblet, you have just reinforced the position I have taken in my posts.
All of the reasons you have outlined for pushing forward with an arrest are the EXACT opposite of what a professional police officer should be considering. Its thought processes like that that lead to fuck ups.
Consider this. Offender is sitting with mates having a beer while fishing. Cop comes along knowing there is a warrant for his arrest and thinks to himself, 'score, I have been looking for you for a while.' He goes over and says "Hello sunshine, can I have a chat for a minute? Theres a warrant out for you that we really need to get tidied up"
Offender feeling all empowered bacause he has a bunch of mates around him says - "piss off
Cop realising that this could go sideways big time thinks to himself "yeah, this really isint worth me getting shit kicked over and its a warrant for a pretty minor offence" so says to the offender "sweet as, I'll do you a deal, if you come to see me at the station tomorrow we can sort it out then"
Offender doesnt lose face in front of his mates, cop looks like a seriously reasonable sort in front of everyone including the offender, his mates, all bystanders and the offenders family. And if he does come to the station the following day then even better. Not saying he will, but in my experience it happens at least 20% of the time depending on how you deal with it.
If the cop thinks there is very little chance he will come in, he waits and watches till the offender is on his own, ideally asleep, and goes and does the business on his terms.
Its what smart cops do.
What actually happened was anything but smart. It was a fuck up.
Yeah fair call.
From what I have seen and read it's pretty hard to tell how fast things went pear shaped though. So I think arguing either side of the fence is all heresy.
Something I think everyone in this forum can agree on is the lack of respect people in this country a beginning to show towards the uniform is unacceptable, from the amount of people who try to do runners in cars to those who just blatantly attack officers in the last few months. The speed at which the Police get lynched by the media and made guilty with 5/8ths of fuck all facts being known is astonishing.
I personally would love to see BOTH harsher penalties AND Thailand-esk prisons. Give them a reason to comply. Won't deter all but will make most common people think twice.
That's my rant over.
It was a fuck up, no doubt about it. But there are so many situations in everyday policing that can go pearshaped like this very quickly.
Bail checks, traffic stops and domestics are all situations where there is potential for big fuk ups and no doubt than when they occur then people are going to sit on their keyboards and say there is no way they should've gone in there. Confrontation is a frequent part of policing.
He had backup there, the firebrigade were in the photos, not Police but can still act under instruction. This guy was obviously a high priority target and had a history of avoiding Police. The cop went in there as prepared as he could be except for waiting for other Police, in which time his opportunity may have gone. Why didn't his backup jump in straight away? They were right there. I think there is more to this than we know.
It's very easy to slag him off on here but we don't know the full circumstances and we also have the beauty of hindsight, the Constable didn't. As a nation we seem to call a person brave if they succeed and stupid if they don't.
why didn't the cop use advanced Kung fu techniques on the 7 while shooting them all in the left knee because that's really easy and he is trained in all that stuff - he could have then used his wonder woman truth lassoo and interrogated them all at once --I cant understand why he didnt ??
Nor can I?Quote:
I cant understand why he didnt ??
Wish I had fists as big as her!
We'll start with
"Dunedin is also revealed as the best place in New Zealand to pull off a bank robbery, after police admit that more than 25% of police who failed their firearms test were from the Southern region." from Ups and downs, but no worries | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
It's been pretty well publicised Dougie.
I wasn't having a go, I was just asking.
The thing here is police dont join the force because they are interested in shooting, sure some are but most are not.
Its not uncommon to be shit at something you have no interest in.
I really cannot understand anyone wanting to join the police force with the lack of tools they now possess to carry out their job. You would live in a world of scumbags. Give the force some force and forget the PC shit.
They have enough force now Maca, however what happens in the courtroom is pretty useless. That is what needs a real sharpen up.
Jesus 7mm, all I can do is take it at face value, don't have the time or a few spare million $$$ to get everything fact checked.
I can say from seeing cops at a local range it was not spectacular.
And why would you expect it to be they are cops not marksmen.
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You want to try taking some of them out after small furry critters. A rather large eye opener. Cowboys and wild west rings true. :D :D :D
So how long have the police been subjected to trial by media.
Would like to see is if those media dick heads can do better.
If they think they can do the job more effectively ?
my missus is a cop here in tauranga and I get the shits when she says she had to get kitted up with a glock or m4 , the community would NOT be safe. she could not hit a barn door let alone an offender! Shes left eye dominant and right handed and 55kg wringing wet -bad combo
A good shot with a pistol will take you out at 60m. Buckshot will be hard pressed killing at that range and beyond. If the police need more money for more practice at the range then so be it. Make it happen politicians! It what we pay your useless arses for
IMO kiwi cops are brave az. I wouldnt like to face some massive dude and his mates on my own. Especially knowing the bleeding heart public are going to second guess me no matter what. So much for that new legislation that was brought in 2 years ago - the bit that said it was a criminal offense to not render assistance to an officer in need.
As for the OSH arguement. Aussie cops are some of the most law abiding cops in the world (these days). Never there when you need em 'cause they are controlled by OH&S as they call it. Tell em you're armed and going to sort the intruder out, then you'll see how close they really were all along!
I don't see how the police trying to do their duty is any business of OSH! Seems like a government department operating outside their designated role.I think the media ,OSH ,central government & the justice system needs a serious sort out . Give our police the tools,funding & empower them so they can do the job without all the B/S that isn't actually helping them .
The incident out at Waihi beach new years eve is an example.The guy hears a noise & goes out to investigate & gets stabbed in the head.The piece of shit that did it was on bail for a previous assult, he was apparently in breach of his bail conditions.No shit Shirlock .
The guy he stabbed has since died from the injuries. Whats the piece of shit doing out on bail FFS.