Laughed my arse off at this. Thing's must have changed a hell of a lot....
There's the point Chris. The fucking beck should have left them in clink.
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Oh yes Maca don't get us started on the amount of tax we pay otherwise I will start flooding the forum like a burst dam. PAYE is the most unfair system as far as I am concerned.
Back to the Police discussion, I am an advocate for giving them all the support that they need and that continues through to tougher sentences being handed down by the courts. Outside of this public forum I would say either hang the criminals or flog the pricks.
IMO, its money that in a large part, dictates competency with firearms where Police and dare I say it, military are concerned. I left the military a wee while ago but during my career I trained a fair bit with the police. They used to seek out the certain skills off the Army as far as weapons handling went.
Most if not all Police I came in to contact with, back then, were competent with firearms before they got too us. Budget cuts in both the Police force and Army and from what I hear from mates that are still serving, has resulted in a drop in proficiency across the board.
I seen it happen over the last 10 yrs I served.
The queens medal cut off, used to be the top 40 shooters Army wide, with hundreds if not thousands of trialists from both RF and TF. This was after regional competition and selection. I am happy to be corrected, but I hear now, they are lucky, just too get 40 to attend the queens medal shoot.
Did you not read what it says?
It doesn't say that 25% of police failed.
It says that (more than) 25% OF the police that failed, quantity not stated, were from the Southern Region. It doesn't support your argument at all.
Quote:
police admit that more than 25% of police who failed their firearms test were from the Southern region
I have no side in whatever this thread is about, but sloppy arguing techniques like that annoy me
It's also a terribly written article, but it's the ODT so that's business as usual.
I thought it was simple maths. 25% from the southern region failed. So of the 100% that are rated/tested for firearms use 25% aren't capable of doing the job. Is it not that simple?
Simple reading comprehension, because that's not what it says.
It doesn't say that 25% of police failed.
It doesn't say that 25% of police from the Southern Region failed.
It says that of those that failed nationwide, more than one quarter came from the Southern Region. Indicating that perhaps the Southern Region has poor training compared to other regions, but nothing about the nationwide status of training as it doesn't give any % of police that failed nationwide.
Look up Elmer Keith sometime.....
Amongst his noted feats is the shooting of an Elk, wounded by his hunting partner with a rifle, at 500 odd yards with a .44 magnum revolver. He was a famous long range pistol shooter, and the father of the .44 mag cartridge.
Pistols are a lot more accurate than often thought, just a lot harder to shoot accurately than a rifle.
And how are they for snap shooting gimp at say 30 metres?
Pretty good if you have some proper training, should see what good IPSC, USPSA etc shooters can do, even in production class, or the 'tactical' instructors like Frank Proctor, Chris Costa, etc etc
I'd link some videos but my wifi and ipad are conspiring against me.
Obviously no rifle in terms of accuracy and power but can still be pretty effective
When it comes to it the pistol 9mm pistol is pretty hopeless. All fine motor skills are lost including trigger control in a high danger situation so rounds get sprayed . The furthest a person in NZ has been shot by a Police pistol is 7 metres, people have been missed from much closer. 30m snap shooting may be achievable on a range with a fancy pistol but cannot be realistically expected by a Police Officer, or anyone, in a high stress situation with a glock, hence why they have an m4. The 9mm has much less stopping power than the .223 as well.
What Savage said ^^
Pistol -- very VERY easy to miss with, even at closer than 10 meters. It is very unfair to think that every cop is a Jerry Miculeck. This is not the movies.
Have a shotgun, sounds like they will have more luck hitting someone with it.
Slightly of topic here, but still relevant - I recently went through Christchurch Airport and with out thinking too hard about it, I walked past an armed police officer, who was helping some tourist's find the exit (?) or something. Thing was, this guy was totally distracted and as I walked behind him (very close) it would have been so easy to get my hands on that pistol. Scary to think about, and I hope I don't give some extremist an idea here.
In the States, no one gets within an arms length of an armed officer.
That's a huge change of culture that our cops would have to face if they were to carry a sidearm routinely.
I should point out that I was responding to comments that its impossible to hit anything at all with a pistol, not talking about the Nz police