Thread: Could it be so simple?

Originally Posted by HNTMAD

Sorry totally disagree, my target animal is a deer so I will shoot it regardless of what it it is after having positively identifying it. Does that make me a bad person??

you also forgot if if it's red it's dead or if it has eyes it dies.

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*cringes and walks away from conversation

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

*cringes and walks away from conversation

But why do you cringe and walk away??

Essentially what you are saying though is that if you restricted what sort of deer you shoot this may stop people getting shot. People will stop getting shot if people identify their target beyond all doubt regardless of if it is hind, fawn, 6 or 16. No point getting down on guys that go out and shoot what they want when they want, that is a whole other thread that has nothing to do with identifying your target

Hamish

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Identifying that it's a deer doesn't seem to be enough, so requiring hunters to identify the sex will force hunters to look closer, and in greater detail. That process SHOULD reduce the number of people being shot. It's easier to mistake a human for a deer than it is to mistake a human for, say, a stag with a minimum of 6 points.

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If it made it safer for us all, then I'm all for it. However it will never get off the ground here in NZ, as it attacks the root of NZ deer hunting culture (or lack of) and that's what all of this is really about, not only safety directly, but changing an overall culture. Its the reason that people will be shot every year without fail until we either A. get our guns taken from us and end up with heavy hunting restrictions placed on us or B. we as a group make an active start on changing NZ hunting culture.

Like others mentioned here, shooting hinds in the roar is at minimum, counter productive. Where there's girls there's boys etc.

Originally Posted by Pointer

If it made it safer for us all, then I'm all for it. However it will never get off the ground here in NZ, as it attacks the root of NZ deer hunting culture (or lack of) and that's what all of this is really about, not only safety directly, but changing an overall culture. Its the reason that people will be shot every year without fail until we either A. get our guns taken from us and end up with heavy hunting restrictions placed on us or B. we as a group make an active start on changing NZ hunting culture.

Like others mentioned here, shooting hinds in the roar is at minimum, counter productive. Where there's girls there's boys etc.

Are you suggesting countries with restrictive hunting rules and limits on what animals you can shoot at different times don't have accidental shootings? That deserves a tui sign!

Personally I have no problem with shooting a hind during the roar if I want the meat, I'm more of a meat hunter than a trophy hunter. Doesn't mean I don't identify it first though.

I wonder if there is any record of what proportion of accidental shootings were during trophy hunting vs meat hunting? Trophy hunters suggest that meat hunters don't bother identifying their target properly, meat hunters suggest that trophy hunters get hopped up on adrenaline and turn their brains off...

Not at all Gravelben, I'm merely saying that if you want a meat animal there is the rest of the year to shoot one, say for example in spring when they are easy work and eating the good stuff, as opposed to going out in a very busy time of year and crowding a finite resource. That's what I believe the original post was about, curbing the 'I have to come home with something mentality' not changing laws. Changing a culture of an entire group. No easy task.


Driving back through the Waioeka gorge from Gisborne this weekend, 25 wagons all at various entry points. Scary

Originally Posted by Pointer

Not at all Gravelben, I'm merely saying that if you want a meat animal there is the rest of the year to shoot one, say for example in spring when they are easy work and eating the good stuff, as opposed to going out in a very busy time of year and crowding a finite resource. That's what I believe the original post was about, curbing the 'I have to come home with something mentality' not changing laws.

Fair enough, that makes more sense and I have a similar attitude to the roar - I mostly avoid hunting public bush (especially popular areas) at that time, happy to leave it to trophy hunters for a while and reduce my chances of encountering armed idiots.

Im with Hamish on this one.

Its quite simple you cannot shoot someone with out breaking 1 or more of the following rules, more rules wont change this in the slightest.

Now i do agree that something has to change. I remember when i went for my fal and there was only 10 of the 18 or so people who passed the test to begin with.
I hung around talking to a few people and looking at the different types of firearms end the end everyone walked away with a pass.

I think when thats your only safety net some people are doomed to fail and yes i might take 20 - 30 years for that failure to happen.
I would like to see something like the NZDA Hunts program for everyone looking to get into hunting,
A Shooting Range use program for those looking to get into target shooting

This will set a good foundation around the basics of active firearms handling in scenarios that's relevant and easy to apply in different situations.

Originally Posted by 199p

Its quite simple you cannot shoot someone with out breaking 1 or more of the following rules, more rules wont change this in the slightest.

That's it in a nut shell, it is the application of the current cardinal rules here that is the issue.

Originally Posted by 199p

I would like to see something like the NZDA Hunts program for everyone looking to get into hunting,
A Shooting Range use program for those looking to get into target shooting

Respectfully, I am not in favour of such blanket requirements. The NZDA Hunts program is already there for those who choose to attend it.
Maybe at most, make such a thing a condition to access to public land for hunting. But as you said yourself more rules won't change things.
Statistically, on a range is not where shooting deaths occur either, why try and solve a problem that doesn't exist. I could easily see a licence costing upwards of $600 in our user pays system for no net gain overall.

To engage about this as a user group, either here online, hunting shows on TV, magazines, at retailers, at the range and socially among our peers.
To be proactive as a user group.
That is something NZDA could certainly spear head.

@HNTMAD can you honestly not see how having to identify sex and quality of an animal would not make people identify the target more clearly??? It's all about that extra 2 seconds it takes for people to have a better look then just snap shooting at a moving bush.

And killing someone in a car crash is hardly the same as deliberately pulling the trigger with the intention to kill

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

@HNTMAD can you honestly not see how having to identify sex and quality of an animal would not make people identify the target more clearly??? It's all about that extra 2 seconds it takes for people to have a better look then just snap shooting at a moving bush.

And killing someone in a car crash is hardly the same as deliberately pulling the trigger with the intention to kill

Shit mate. If your not doing this already you got rocks in your head and need to get out of the bush.

You get me wrong. I practice that now, it forms my decision before shooting weather a quick shot in bush or more leisurely at greater distance than 20-30m. At all times like others it is human until otherwise so back to the original rule of identifying your target beyond all doubt. Pretty simple really, no need to complicate things

Hamish

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Originally Posted by HNTMAD

Shit mate. If your not doing this already you got rocks in your head and need to get out of the bush.

You get me wrong. I practice that now, it forms my decision before shooting weather a quick shot in bush or more leisurely at greater distance than 20-30m. At all times like others it is human until otherwise so back to the original rule of identifying your target beyond all doubt. Pretty simple really, no need to complicate things

Hamish

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Well the facts are people aren't doing that! A bit of advertising around this wouldn't hurt surely? I give mates shit when they shoot a scrubber or hind in the roar.

Originally Posted by PerazziSC3

@HNTMAD can you honestly not see how having to identify sex and quality of an animal would not make people identify the target more clearly??? It's all about that extra 2 seconds it takes for people to have a better look then just snap shooting at a moving bush.

Someone who snap shoots at a moving bush isn't identifying their target at all, and isn't going to start taking more care just because there is suddenly another rule on top of the ones they already ignore.

The OP suggested posed a really poinient question, even if adopted as only a personal limitation it does have a lot of merit.
This should be a positive discussion where new ideas are encouraged.
The solution lies with individuals at its root level, constructive discussion will broaden everyone's awareness and enhance personal safe guards regarding this matter.
My question is.... will you share any simple personal checks and processes you apply in identifying your quarry?

Originally Posted by Moutere

The OP suggested posed a really poinient question, even if adopted as only a personal limitation it does have a lot of merit.
This should be a positive discussion where new ideas are encouraged.
The solution lies with individuals at its root level, constructive discussion will broaden everyone's awareness and enhance personal safe guards regarding this matter.
My question is.... will you share any simple personal checks and processes you apply in identifying your quarry?

Sex of quarry and a guess at age is what I do. Add to that a clear sight picture and I'm pretty confident I am safe.