Thread: HDPA does indeed lie about firearms

Originally Posted by Savage1

1) Stop using plural, one bystander was shot and killed by one member of the Police with one bushmaster (one copped some fragments but wasn't directly shot). Don't get me wrong, it was a monumental fuk up. You don't like all FAL holders being labeled by the actions of one bad egg so how about extending the same logic to the Police.
2) To say there is no evidence to show cops have no care for bystanders is BS and actually borderline offensive, why do you think they join the job? Would they really risk their own safety if they don't care about bystanders?
3) I'm pretty sure you have no idea what Police training consists of, there is zero 'Hawaii 50'. If you disagree then quote some examples or find some way of backing up your stupid claims.
4) We're all entitled to our own opinions, however if our opinions are poorly based then expect them to be challenged and/or dismissed. I suggest you apply some logic to some of your own biased comments.
5) Sorry about you experiences with the Australian Police, however I believe the NZ Police doesn't have that kind of attitude as a widespread problem, there is the odd idiot but in my experience they are reasonably far between and strongly disliked by other Police Officers.
6) I fully understand and agree with your friends from London.
7) I understand Systolics point of view and agree with some of it, I can't be bothered going back and reading them in detail.
8) Adequately armed for most situations doesn't cut it, which was shown by all of the cops that have had their cars stolen at gunpoint, been shot at, being shot, attacked with machetes etc. I don't like the idea of people in armchairs telling me when I should or shouldn't carry a gun when they aren't the ones going into the same situations and putting themselves at risk.
9) In the Police you pick your scuffles, and you only pick ones you are going to win. Weapon retention isn't hard. Cops having their own TASERs, pepperspray used against them is almost unheard of.
10) Sorry for the numbering
11) I think it should be the individual choice of the officer, providing they have been shown to be competent in handling the firearm and their decision making has been tested under pressure.

Savage1, you are correct, and you have my (sincere) apology. I was generalising and that is almost always wrong and comes from lazy thinking. Again, sorry. But I haven't spent lot of my life in an armchair and have seen plenty of what you folk have to deal with. I've also been helped by police a couple of times and been grateful for that. But police aren't immune to being arseholes, just because they're police, and I have seen some arsehole cops in action, too. I think the biggest problem is this "them and us" mindset, and that goes both ways, too.
With that sense of separation between police and the populace who pay for their protection and other services the problems will not be solved by arming police fulltime while obviously working on disarming everyone else. There should be no "us & them." It's supposed to be just us - apart from "them" who really do need to be in a cage.
I was caught up in the anti-apartheit stuff in 81 and saw the way police brutalised their fellow citizens, and "copped" a bit of it myself. Every one in this country has the right to an opinion, even me, but some of what systolic has written in this thread proves that the "us & them" standpoint is not going to be an easy fix. He is obviousy more into punishment than protection, arresting rather than assisting. And his sick example of "fucking a 9-year -old girl" compared to someone smoking a joint, is way out of line.
He typifies so much that is wrong between police and their fellow citizens. I've had my car stolen, and everything in it swiped and had no response apart ffrom having it towed and stored - at MY - despite telling them specifically that I didn't want it towed and was available to pick it up if it was found. The whole attitude seemed to be, "well fuck you, we'll do what we want."
Had my house burgled and never even saw a fingerprint lkit appear, let alone a cop carrying one. And you wonder why so many people have no respect for their police force? Yeah , yeah, "budget, blah blah." In the last 3 years before I retired I didn't get a budget increase either. Costs went up, pay didn't. Tough shit chit at your local church. Handle it. Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say, including apologising to you for MY attitude. But don't expect me to support your wish to be armed fulltime, not when you've got weapons in your vehicle anyway. We don't see a friendly, caring cop; those days are gone. All we see is a collective blue uniform not doing its job. Or doing it badly.