Thread: Important update from FSA for Gunsmiths !

Hi all,
As a registered Gunsmith (Dealer) we get updates from the FSA, yesterday we all got one advising that Gunsmiths need to complete the registry transfer form (The same one we do when buying or selling a gun) for taking any gun in to work on and the same for returning it to the customer. This includes ALL jobs where the gun is left with the Gunsmith, they even make examples of threading and fitting a scope (so not just if we are keeping it for over 30 days)

I have made extensive enquiries today with various people including senior staff in the FSA (A local guy who is very helpful), and they have confirmed it as a requirement as follows:-


"I’ve spoken with our Partnerships team, and they have confirmed that this is a regulatory requirement. It has not been taken lightly—our legal and policy teams have reviewed the legislation and advised that this process is required and must be implemented.
I understand this adds an extra burden, particularly given the record-keeping you already maintain. While compliance is mandatory, I’ll ensure your feedback is passed on so that any future considerations around practicality and efficiency can be taken into account."

And confirmed with:-

“I understand some dealers are unhappy. This change is a reflection of the process everyone should have been using since day one.”
Each transfer must be recorded using the transfer form.


So there it is, don't get grumpy with your Gunsmith or sports shop if they ask for your address etc. dealers need to comply, keep their license and business!

There is also little point in all the comments that will follow from those who are not connected with the industry and are just guessing.

I am putting this out there for information, if you are unhappy I would suggest you communicate with the likes of COLFO, politicians etc. who might be able to change things.

Cheers

Darren

That last bits a tui add right?

I meant as opposed to venting off on here Or do absolutely nothing...your call

So does that force someone who isn’t on the register yet to have to register? Activating event?

Originally Posted by outdoorlad

So does that force someone who isn’t on the register yet to have to register? Activating event?

They are a bit vague on that point, suggesting that only if it is kept for over 30 days, it could be a trigger.

Be very interested to see how they're interpreting the Act/Regs to come to that conclusion

So they are arguing its specified in the Act, this isn't just a decision on how to apply it. Did they cite the sections of the Act?

Seems really odd, given we have 30 days grace when loaning a firearm

Hey FSS precision would you be able to follow up this from the FSA.
"I’ve spoken with our Partnerships team, and they have confirmed that this is a regulatory requirement. It has not been taken lightly—our legal and policy teams have reviewed the legislation and advised that this process is required and must be implemented.
I understand this adds an extra burden, particularly given the record-keeping you already maintain. While compliance is mandatory, I’ll ensure your feedback is passed on so that any future considerations around practicality and efficiency can be taken into account.""

Simply by asking them if they could direct you to the Legislation and/or Regulation that requires this?

I'm curious.

I'm aware under the Arms Act Section 12 dealers are required to capture and store records in a "book" (can be paper or electronic). Details here: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/.../DLM72697.html
This legislation also requires the dealer to "permit any member of the Police to inspect and make copies of any entries in the book". However this wording does not equate to a proactive provision or information nor registry transfer.

I'm also aware that Regulation 7 of the Arms Regulation details the types of information which a dealer must capture (licence number, address, etc, etc). https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regu...DLM169108.html

However I can't find, in a fairly brief search admittedly, a requirement to proactively provide police the type of information for transfers of sub-30 days as the information you've passed on suggests.

I'm curious which Section of the Arms Act and/or Regulation FSA was interpreted as this process being required. My opinion is they should be communicating this. They may well be right. We don't know and can't independently review without it.

Originally Posted by Oscar

So they are arguing its specified in the Act, this isn't just a decision on how to apply it. Did they cite the sections of the Act?

Seems really odd, given we have 30 days grace when loaning a firearm

It's the regs, according to the FB post I saw from Gunworks


Reg 39 requires dealers license holders to provide info in part 2 of schedule 1B, within the timeframe specified in part 5 of schedule 1B.



The thing is that the info in Part 2 of schedule 1B is:

Information relating to dealer’s licence holders
1Their full name, date of birth, contact phone number, email address, residential address, and (if different from their residential address) postal address.
2The number and date of expiry of their dealer’s licence.
3The date of expiry of every endorsement on the licence.
4Every condition on the licence and endorsements additional to conditions imposed by the Act or these regulations.
5The registered name of the business (if it is a body corporate), the trading name (if any), and its New Zealand Business Number (if any).
6The dealer’s business address and, if the dealer is operating from more than 1 place of business, the addresses of each of those places.
7The address of any separate warehousing or storage facilities they operate.
8The names of their employees who handle or have access to arms items or ammunition at the dealer’s place of business, and the firearms licence numbers and endorsements (if any) of those employees.

and the timeframe specified in Part 5 is

Time within which information must be provided to Police
Matter Information must be provided
1 Details about individual firearms licence holder When applying for firearms licence, endorsement, or permit.
2 Details about dealer’s licence holder When applying for dealer’s licence, endorsement, or permit, or renewal of dealer’s licence.
3 Sale or supply of an arms item When sale or supply occurs or immediately after the sale or supply.
4 Sale of ammunition When the sale occurs or immediately after the sale.
5 Purchase or receipt of an arms item As soon as practicable, but not later than 30 days after the purchase or receipt of the arms item.
6 Manufacture, modification, or destruction of an arms item Within 5 days after the date of manufacture, modification, or destruction.
7 Importation of an arms item Within 30 days after the date on which the item is released to the importer by the New Zealand Customs Service.
8 Exportation of an arms item Within 5 days after the date of exportation.
9 Loss or theft of an arms item Immediately after the loss or theft is known to have occurred.
10 Executors, administrators, and holders of powers of attorney in relation to the property of incapacitated persons See regulation 43(3).
11 Other matters As determined by the Commissioner or otherwise provided in these regulations.

sorry terrible formatting - but it looks like bullet point 2 is the only relevant one in part 5 (from reg 39 requirement)




I just don't read it that there's actually any requirement under reg 39 to provide transfer details.

Originally Posted by Fssprecision

They are a bit vague on that point, suggesting that only if it is kept for over 30 days, it could be a trigger.

Surely if you as gunsmith are registering as a transpher.there must also be second transpher BACK to owner???? The only work around I can see is book I rifle for threading,say Tuesday at 10:00.... Turn up and wait while it is done,therefore no switching of who's possession firearm is in???? Or are they saying you as gunsmith need to register change of possession for less than 30 days including owners details but this isn't a registration??? So they get firearms details,and owners details to add to "the list" but somehow that's not on Register???? GOOD ON YOU for queries about it.thankyou for keeping us in the loop

Originally Posted by gimp

It's the regs, according to the FB post I saw from Gunworks


Reg 39 requires dealers license holders to provide info in part 2 of schedule 1B, within the timeframe specified in part 5 of schedule 1B.



The thing is that the info in Part 2 of schedule 1B is:





and the timeframe specified in Part 5 is





sorry terrible formatting - but it looks like bullet point 2 is the only relevant one in part 5 (from reg 39 requirement)




I just don't read it that there's actually any requirement under reg 39 to provide transfer details.

reg 42 is a much more sensible pathway to think about this. Reg 42 requires

Obligation to update licence holder information and record events relating to arms items and ammunition in the registry
(1)A licence holder must provide to the Police for entry in the registry—
(a)details of any change in the information recorded about the person under regulation 38 or 39, as soon as practicable after the change occurs; and
(b)relevant details of any event specified in Part 4 of Schedule 1B for which the person is responsible, within the time frame specified in Part 5 of that schedule.

ok so any activity under part 4 must be entered in the timeframe in part 5 -


part 4

Details of events
Event Relevant details for registry
1 Transfer of an arms item by sale, supply, purchase, or receipt (excluding a temporary transfer as defined in section 95(4) of the Act)
(a)for the sale or supply of an arms item,—
(i)the date on which the seller hands over or dispatches the item; and
(ii)the name and licence number of the person to whom the item was delivered; and
(iii)in addition, in the case of a pistol, prohibited firearm, prohibited magazine, pistol carbine conversion kit, or restricted weapon delivered to a person who requires a permit to possess it, the number of the permit; and
(iv)the relevant details specified for the item in Part 3 of this schedule:
(b)for the purchase or receipt of an arms item,—
(i)the date on which the item comes into the possession of the purchaser or receiver; and
(ii)the name and firearms licence number of the person from whom the item was received (unless the arms item was surrendered within 5 working days by a licensed dealer to a member of the Police in accordance with section 59A of the Act); and
(iii)the relevant details specified for the item in Part 3 of this schedule.
2 Importation of an arms item Details of the arms item (as specified in Part 3 of this schedule).
3 Exportation of an arms item If an export control permit is required by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, details of the arms item (as specified in Part 3 of this schedule), the export control permit number, and the date on which the arms item is sent or is taken out of New Zealand.
4 Manufacture of an arms item Details of the arms item (as specified in Part 3 of this schedule) and the date of completion of manufacture.
5 Loss, theft, or destruction of an arms item The date of the occurrence, details of the arms item (as specified in Part 3 of this schedule), and its last known location.
6 Importation of ammunition The type, quantity, and relevant details specified in regulation 13(2).
7 Sale of ammunition by dealer or ammunition seller to firearms licence holder Details of sales of ammunition, including the date on which the seller hands over or dispatches the ammunition, the type and quantity of ammunition sold, and the name and firearms licence number of the purchaser or the person supervising the purchaser.
8 Modification of a prohibited firearm to a non-prohibited firearm Details of the firearm before and after modification, and a certification from a person authorised by the Police that the modification has been properly carried out and the firearm is permanently modified.

sorry formatting all fucked up again.


But Part 4 includes the exclusion for a temporary transfer. So this interpretation would rest on determining that a transfer to a gunsmith cannot constitute a temporary transfer - although this isn't provided for in leg

and it has nothing to do with Reg 39

Originally Posted by gimp

It's the regs, according to the FB post I saw from Gunworks


Reg 39 requires dealers license holders to provide info in part 2 of schedule 1B, within the timeframe specified in part 5 of schedule 1B.

All of those schedules only apply when an event listed under Part 4 of Schedule 1B occurs.
Would be great if FSS could ask for clarification.

Post script - as you've acknowledged in the subsequent post.

Sorry Guys I really don't have the time to follow up with FSA on individual questions (I have been most of the day on this so far....Without pay).

Ther is heaps of comms going on in the industry at present so hopefully things will be answered as it all progresses.

Cheers
D

Originally Posted by Makros

All of those schedules only apply when an event listed under Part 4 of Schedule 1B occurs.
Would be great if FSS could ask for clarification.

Post script - as you've acknowledged in the subsequent post.

Bullet point 2 applies under reg 39 - I clarified.




Interesting stuff isn't it.

This has a whiff of the good old ultra vires policy making by the enforcers yet again.

It's a pain for a firearms owner to do this each time something goes to a gunsmith; can only imagine the nightmare it will be for those businesses. Needs to go to the Minister