Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Black Watch DPT


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 108
Like Tree136Likes

Thread: Man who shot teen dead in hunting accident 22 years ago loses firearms licence bid

  1. #61
    Member Cordite's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NZ Mainland
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by Moa Hunter View Post
    You are a difficult character Cordite forcing us to examine our prejudices. Why can't you just agree with Gibo and I and help us erect a gallows ??
    He heh, very funny mate. I'm not stopping anyone doing whatever erections they want. Just pointing out a known difficulty with gallows - if we build them we are not immune to later get put onto them ourselves, God forbid.
    Jexla and dannyb like this.
    Guns don't kill people - drivers do.

  2. #62
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    North Canterbury
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    He heh, very funny mate. I'm not stopping anyone doing whatever erections they want. Just pointing out a known difficulty with gallows - if we build them we are not immune to later get put onto them ourselves, God forbid.
    Well Cordite, not wishing to find myself hoisted on my own Gallows for challenging you, I wish instead to meekly disagree with your analogy comparing car drivers who cause road fatalities with hunters involved in fatal shootings. The primary use of cars is for transport. If a car driver was instead using the car for running over (Hunting/killing) possums at night and ran over a person that they mistook for a possum, then in my humble non-challenging view we could compare that driver with a person in possession of a hunting firearm, the primary use of which is to kill things, who then shoots another person that they mistook for the quarry sought.
    Gibo, Solo and dannyb like this.

  3. #63
    Member Cordite's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NZ Mainland
    Posts
    986
    @Moa Hunter

    I agree with your description of how things are currently viewed, but the current public, legal and court logic is wrong:

    1. Gun purpose: kill animals, hole targets.
    2. Car purpose: get places, carry stuff.
    3. Car & gun used to accidentally kill someone.
    ----------
    4. We persecute the shooter.

    The logic break oi course occurs between (3) and (4). Something else happens there, based on a strong mental association between guns and war / murder... So we are deeply resistant to process the idea of gun accidental deaths.

    To increase the contrast, Hollywood rarely portrays how devastatingly effective cars are at killing people, occupants and bystanders alike.

    So in the end it comes down to a simple 'guns are evil, cars are not' delusion, widely held, even by many shooters.

    That is why the latest court case (correctly IMHO) got hailed as a victory for gun control.

    Mad? Yes. For real? Yes.
    Steve123 likes this.

  4. #64
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    North Canterbury
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    @Moa Hunter

    I agree with your description of how things are currently viewed, but the current public, legal and court logic is wrong:

    1. Gun purpose: kill animals, hole targets.
    2. Car purpose: get places, carry stuff.
    3. Car & gun used to accidentally kill someone.
    ----------
    4. We persecute the shooter.

    The logic break oi course occurs between (3) and (4). Something else happens there, based on a strong mental association between guns and war / murder... So we are deeply resistant to process the idea of gun accidental deaths.

    To increase the contrast, Hollywood rarely portrays how devastatingly effective cars are at killing people, occupants and bystanders alike.

    So in the end it comes down to a simple 'guns are evil, cars are not' delusion, widely held, even by many shooters.

    That is why the latest court case (correctly IMHO) got hailed as a victory for gun control.

    Mad? Yes. For real? Yes.
    Of Course we are all totally shocked, sickened and saddened by the accident photos in your last post Cordite. If I may make a comment that I believe represents the view of others here without actually asking them, however I doubt that I am wrong.
    As to the quoted post above: When a hunter makes the decision to squeeze the trigger and fire a shot, they have made a decision to Kill. Not disable, wound, incapacitate or maim but to 'Kill' the animal they have taken aim at. This is quite a different situation to that when a person for example picks up someone else's firearm and accidentally discharges it killing another person. Or perhaps an inexperienced poorly trained person trips in the field and discharges their firearm with the same result. To my mind these handling errors are more comparable to a driving error that leads to a fatal accident. Crazy mad high speed reckless driving is different. We might perhaps consider that a fatality from reckless firearms use like firing a high-powered semi auto for fun into a block of trees might be considered accidental. But now back to our shooter who has fired that deliberate shot with the intention of killing, he has achieved his intended goal and killed, but sadly not the deer that he imagined.

  5. #65
    Member Cordite's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NZ Mainland
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by Moa Hunter View Post
    Of Course we are all totally shocked, sickened and saddened by the accident photos in your last post Cordite. If I may make a comment that I believe represents the view of others here without actually asking them, however I doubt that I am wrong.
    As to the quoted post above: When a hunter makes the decision to squeeze the trigger and fire a shot, they have made a decision to Kill. Not disable, wound, incapacitate or maim but to 'Kill' the animal they have taken aim at. This is quite a different situation to that when a person for example picks up someone else's firearm and accidentally discharges it killing another person. Or perhaps an inexperienced poorly trained person trips in the field and discharges their firearm with the same result. To my mind these handling errors are more comparable to a driving error that leads to a fatal accident. Crazy mad high speed reckless driving is different. We might perhaps consider that a fatality from reckless firearms use like firing a high-powered semi auto for fun into a block of trees might be considered accidental. But now back to our shooter who has fired that deliberate shot with the intention of killing, he has achieved his intended goal and killed, but sadly not the deer that he imagined.
    @Moa Hunter,

    Thanks, I agree handling errors are perhaps excusable if it is someone not licensed/trained in firearms handling, less so by a licensed person, but then again currently there has been no practical safety training in handling guns. But are we to make breaking the target identification rule the unpardonable sin, but pointing a possibly loaded firearm around in unsafe directions somehow more forgivable? Maybe you're right, since target misidentification is often committed by experienced hunters, whereas the other types of error seem more like untrained ignorance.

    You are correct to specify that the "intent to kill" we speak of when pulling the trigger is an intent to kill an animal, not an intent to kill a human. And therefore we cannot transform it on hindsight into intent to kill another person.

    IMHO going for a drive and shooting at an animal to humanely kill it are morally neutral. That is, nothing inherently wrong with either act. If we accept that, it follows that accidentally killing someone by car or by gun while carrying out the above respective activities are also morally neutral and should be treated equally by our Courts. That is, neither as a crime as crimes require "malice aforethought".

    But should we correct matters by going lighter on gun-accidentees, or by going harder on car-accidentees? Both certainly warrant a serious response, no doubt we agree.

    Name:  repentance-music-message.jpg
Views: 152
Size:  36.2 KB
    Banana and Micky Duck like this.
    Guns don't kill people - drivers do.

  6. #66
    308
    308 is offline
    Member 308's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    1,580
    Bollocks

    He should have taken care but he didn't so no license

    He can live without it

    The precious git should just suck it up
    systolic likes this.

  7. #67
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    North Canterbury
    Posts
    144
    Would it be a fair view to take regarding both hunting and driving accidents that we should expect to make mistakes and that we therefore need to be actually trained in how to identify those high danger areas and situations and how to mitigate them. Through better training and more stringent testing of both hunters and drivers the general standard would be higher for one and any borderline individuals across the testing programme would be weeded out - that is people who may not be able to keep it together and drive defensively when the really need to for example.
    My Mrs is a German import, over there she did night classes three or four nights a week as well as practical training on weekends for three months as part of the driver licence training.
    IMHO German drivers have a much higher skill level than Kiwis.
    Cordite likes this.

  8. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    292
    When I did my FAL last year we were all told "don't worry you pretty much can't fail" this alone should ring alarm bells, basically leaving your referees and interview with the arms officer to decide if you get you licence or not.
    On the evening I did my test there were 2 clowns there that were basically coached through the whole multiple choice test, even the mountain safety guy was getting frustrated with them. I remember hearing him say on a few occasions "pick the answer that is MOST correct" then going through the responses emphasising the CORRECT answer. These 2 clowns should probably never handle a firearm without competent supervision (FYI no one failed that night). I have heard lots of similar stories "don't worry mate unless your dead you can't fail your FAL etc..." So really until we fix firearms licencing there will more than likely be firearms accidents. Sad but true.

    Has anyone actually heard of someone failing the FAL test ?
    Moa Hunter and Cordite like this.

  9. #69
    Member northdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    north auckland area
    Posts
    3,732
    One guy in the ms group is was in was there for the 4th attempt no fukn way should he be getting a licence imo
    Cordite and dannyb like this.

  10. #70
    Member Cordite's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NZ Mainland
    Posts
    986
    Quote Originally Posted by Moa Hunter View Post
    Would it be a fair view to take regarding both hunting and driving accidents that we should expect to make mistakes and that we therefore need to be actually trained in how to identify those high danger areas and situations and how to mitigate them. Through better training and more stringent testing of both hunters and drivers the general standard would be higher for one and any borderline individuals across the testing programme would be weeded out - that is people who may not be able to keep it together and drive defensively when the really need to for example.
    My Mrs is a German import, over there she did night classes three or four nights a week as well as practical training on weekends for three months as part of the driver licence training.
    IMHO German drivers have a much higher skill level than Kiwis.
    @Moa Hunter

    Your Mrs too? My German taught me to drive better, she still does in fact....(-:
    Guns don't kill people - drivers do.

  11. #71
    Member Boaraxa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Southland
    Posts
    1,388
    @Cordite you are a fuckwit I don't no what makes you think its ok to post such sic images you mite find it funny but I do not nor would any member of my family looking at that shit , your a queer cunt take your sic images & fuck off
    Rumors are carried by haters , spread by fools , and accepted by Idiots .

  12. #72
    Member BRADS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Central Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    7,900
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordite View Post
    Attachment 90950

    Attachment 90951

    Attachment 90952

    None of the above images courtesy of Hollywood's sanitised car-chase entertainments.

    Sorry for posting such images, but who accidentally causes such devastation with a gun!?!
    I'm lost for words this forum has really taken a turn for the worse lately, used to be a great place to hang out, even something to be proud of some of the things we achieved as a group.
    Some of you guys need a long holiday. @Spanners @jakewire



    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Spanners, 199p, Harryg and 1 others like this.

  13. #73
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    132
    Cordite I'm with Boaraxa on this one. The forum is a big community & I'm sure there are plenty of us on here who have lost friends or family to a road accident. Think about the pain & hurt such a post can cause. As well as younger family/forum members who don't need to see such images. Seems there are a few people on the forum hell bent on making everyone think the same as them no matter what & prepared to go to extreme measures to achieve this.
    Cordite likes this.

  14. #74
    Member Jexla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Napier
    Posts
    837
    Quote Originally Posted by dannyb View Post
    When I did my FAL last year we were all told "don't worry you pretty much can't fail" this alone should ring alarm bells, basically leaving your referees and interview with the arms officer to decide if you get you licence or not.
    On the evening I did my test there were 2 clowns there that were basically coached through the whole multiple choice test, even the mountain safety guy was getting frustrated with them. I remember hearing him say on a few occasions "pick the answer that is MOST correct" then going through the responses emphasising the CORRECT answer. These 2 clowns should probably never handle a firearm without competent supervision (FYI no one failed that night). I have heard lots of similar stories "don't worry mate unless your dead you can't fail your FAL etc..." So really until we fix firearms licencing there will more than likely be firearms accidents. Sad but true.

    Has anyone actually heard of someone failing the FAL test ?
    Which accidents do you purpose the new system will be likely to lower?
    Cordite likes this.

  15. #75
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    North Canterbury
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by Boaraxa View Post
    @Cordite you are a fuckwit I don't no what makes you think its ok to post such sic images you mite find it funny but I do not nor would any member of my family looking at that shit , your a queer cunt take your sic images & fuck off
    Boaraxa, I will take some responsibility for the photos Cordite posted on my shoulders. I am the one who is debating gun shot deaths against road deaths with Cordite.
    I have never in my life seen road fatality images like that before, they are shocking. I didn't even ever imagine that is what it could look like. I would like to see the actual photos of the teenager shot by Diack posted too.
    Not through some morbid fascination, but because shooting fatality photos need to be shown to gun users especially new licence holders and those motor vehicle accident photos should be shown to our sons and daughters before they drive. We are hiding from the truth with our sanitised media coverage and that is not helping to save anyone else's life into the future. I will be showing my son those photos in the future and telling him "this is truly how you and your mates could end up in an accident, so think when you drive and don't fuck it up" My 2c
    Cordite likes this.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Firearms over 100 years old still used Today
    By P38 in forum Firearms, Optics and Accessories
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 30-03-2015, 06:46 AM
  2. Teen wounded. shot in shoulder
    By scottrods in forum Firearm Safety
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 12-02-2014, 05:20 PM
  3. Pelican found shot dead
    By Kiwikiwi in forum Game Bird Hunting
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 28-05-2013, 08:39 PM
  4. firearms licence
    By TimeRider in forum Off topic
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 25-02-2013, 07:42 PM
  5. Hunter shot dead near Wanaka
    By dogmatix in forum Hunting
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 30-12-2011, 01:36 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!