Thread: One up the spout

I wouldnt hunt with someone who walks around with one up the spout all the time,regardless of the position of their bolt.Only takes 5 seconds to chamber a round.

I did hear a story about someone demonstrating how safe his .303 was by bashing the but on the ground with a round up the spout and the firing pin resting on the primer. It was his last mistake. Perhaps the story is apocryphal but perhaps not. In any case anyone that carries a rifle that way is asking for trouble. Additionally carrying a rifle with a chambered round and the handle just raised, often but totally incorrectly called half cock this is unsafe regardless of whether it feels secure on not. It is just too easy to lean on the bolt handle and close it. The part open action taught by MSC for many years works ok with cock on closing actions like the Lee Enfield but is practically useless with cock on opening actions.
So where does this leave us. For me if the rifle is on my shoulder the chamber is empty. If I am sneaking through a likely spot the sling is in my pack, the round is chambered, safety on and the rifle held in my hands. The safety needs to be checked prior to each use and once back on the track the chamber is unloaded. It really is that simple.
GPM.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Yesterday, a bloke I know told me that he now carries his rifle with a round in the chamber but with the sear disengaged; as in, he holds the trigger back during chambering so that the chambered round sits with the firing pin pressing on the primer under spring tension, but not 'cocked'.
This on a Remington and he claims that because the bolt shroud covers ( sort of) the back of the cocking piece this cannot be struck in a fall.

When game is sited and he is ready for a shot, he simply lifts and closes the bolt to 'cock' the action.

He considers this 'safe practice', I consider it possible that if the 'butt' was thumped down on a hard surface the inertia of the shell against the pressure of the mainspring could cause the rifle to fire.

Opinion would suggest this to be unsafe, does anyone know from an engineering / physics perspective whether it is safe or not ?

I know many who USED to do this....I also know of a fella who dropped a 8mm mauser down a bank in that state,it fired taking off fingers on one hand and going through chest and out shoulder..... he survived it surprisingly....
Ive seen dented primers from the practise....

Originally Posted by Trout

I wouldnt hunt with someone who walks around with one up the spout all the time,regardless of the position of their bolt.Only takes 5 seconds to chamber a round.

it depends on the type of hunting i guess.

Bushhunting i believe you need to have a round chambered. too noisy and slow to load otherwise.

I have round chambered and bolt open /not closed... in 40 years of hunting Ive never had a bolt close unintentionally but have lost a few rounds as it came open... external hammer guns are easy,as is the internal hammer bakails it works the same way.....uncock hammer until shot is going to be taken.

Originally Posted by 223nut

If I'm on my own with the possibility of a snap shot have 1 up the spout and safety on (usually test it at the start of a trip) if with anyone else empty chamber

Same

Originally Posted by Chur Bay

it depends on the type of hunting i guess.

Bushhunting i believe you need to have a round chambered. too noisy and slow to load otherwise.

Bushhunting I’m the same, round half chambered, lever half down and safety on, if hunting alone and I know a deer is close I’ll skip the safety and just have the lever part down, it’s under tension and if I let the lever go it flies open and the round (generally) pings out.

The Finnwolf sounds like a gravel crusher if you try to crank one up the spout from the mag.

Bolt actions? - it’s half open bolt if expecting a shot, otherwise full mag and empty chamber.

The rifle I got from Mickey Duck is a doozy for the half open bolt method as (like a Lee Enfield) it cocks on pushing the bolt forward, needs a good push forward to get to where you can pull the bolt handle down.

Originally Posted by Jhon

At the NZDA Hunts Course they showed how a Mauser action with a chambered round and the bolt half open will still fire on a trigger pull. A round firing with the bolt half open is not something most of us would want to experience. The practice apparently arose when many had Lee Enfield 303B where the half open bolt would not fire but could be quickly and quietly closed on sighting a target. The equivalent they recommended with a Mauser style action was to chamber the round, open the bolt fully but hold it foward in the action with a stout rubber band looped around the bolt handle and the front scope ring. The tension on the rubber band both holds the bolt forward so the round can't drop out and also prevents any rattling of the bolt. Best, the bolt is positioned to quietly close on the firing position with minimum movement. I thought the rubber band would be kind of naf and in the way but actually the technique I found works exceptionally well and is as safe as it gets.

Most modern cock on open rifles will fire if the bolt is half open if you have it just far enough for the trigger to work. Modern (read new good quality rifles, not old crappy rifles) wont fire with one up the spout and safety on if left in factory condition in good condition. Mainly referring to tikkas and sakos here tbh, but even cheaper ones will be the same.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

I did hear a story about someone demonstrating how safe his .303 was by bashing the but on the ground with a round up the spout and the firing pin resting on the primer. It was his last mistake. Perhaps the story is apocryphal but perhaps not. In any case anyone that carries a rifle that way is asking for trouble. Additionally carrying a rifle with a chambered round and the handle just raised, often but totally incorrectly called half cock this is unsafe regardless of whether it feels secure on not. It is just too easy to lean on the bolt handle and close it. The part open action taught by MSC for many years works ok with cock on closing actions like the Lee Enfield but is practically useless with cock on opening actions.
So where does this leave us. For me if the rifle is on my shoulder the chamber is empty. If I am sneaking through a likely spot the sling is in my pack, the round is chambered, safety on and the rifle held in my hands. The safety needs to be checked prior to each use and once back on the track the chamber is unloaded. It really is that simple.
GPM.

Agree 100% this is how i hunt too. Empty chamber if its just being carried, and one up safety on held in my hands pointing in safe direction if im expecting action.

Originally Posted by 223nut

If I'm on my own with the possibility of a snap shot have 1 up the spout and safety on (usually test it at the start of a trip) if with anyone else empty chamber

I should add that this is in hunting situations where if animals are seen the 5seconds to chamber a round results in a white tail dancing into the distance. Rifle is always pointed in safe direction and if rifle is going back on the shoulder or no animals are going to be seen in the immediate future etc the round is removed.

The idea of having someone behind me with one up the spout would give me the heebe jeebes and no way would I be doing it if I had company

One up the spout shooting must have been very common up until 2019 with semi auto hunting rifles, most of which are loud to load.

Originally Posted by gonetropo

fark!!........i saw the title and thought moa had got someone pregnant !

Oh for the chance, more celibate than a Catholic priest me !! - Mrs away in Germany at present

Originally Posted by scotty

you would hope......... i had a zastava (modern m98 clone ) with a trigger safety and one day i was showing the missus how to cycle rounds and how different safetys work on different actions , obviously no rounds live being used. i put the safety on and said "watch now i cant pull the trigger" then click as the firing pin hit the dummy round.......... this was a relatively brand new rifle at the time but it wasnt like that at the time of purchase. so after maybe a box of ammo thru it the safety adjustment screw had moved .....kinda lucky i find out the way i did but i do not trust trigger safetys at all

A safety catch is a mechanical device. Mechanical devices can/will fail. Calling it a "safety" catch is a misnomer and provides a false sense of security. I don't understand this insistence on having the firearm on ready, as if a nano second is the difference between getting a shot away successfully, or not?

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

A safety catch is a mechanical device. Mechanical devices can/will fail. Calling it a "safety" catch is a misnomer and provides a false sense of security. I don't understand this insistence on having the firearm on ready, as if a nano second is the difference between getting a shot away successfully, or not?

With me it’s not so much the ‘nano second’, it’s more the noise.

And in the bush the shooting ranges are well within hearing distance of the deer.

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Yesterday, a bloke I know told me that he now carries his rifle with a round in the chamber but with the sear disengaged; as in, he holds the trigger back during chambering so that the chambered round sits with the firing pin pressing on the primer under spring tension, but not 'cocked'.
This on a Remington and he claims that because the bolt shroud covers ( sort of) the back of the cocking piece this cannot be struck in a fall.

When game is sited and he is ready for a shot, he simply lifts and closes the bolt to 'cock' the action.

He considers this 'safe practice', I consider it possible that if the 'butt' was thumped down on a hard surface the inertia of the shell against the pressure of the mainspring could cause the rifle to fire.

Opinion would suggest this to be unsafe, does anyone know from an engineering / physics perspective whether it is safe or not ?

You mean your ex friend whom you do not hunt with any more. Sorta like driving around a blind corner on the opposite side of the road saying its ok. When your mate discharges his bdl Remington 270 between your legs as you climb a fence you look at the world in a different way. Oh I forgot I had a round up there.