Thread: One up the spout

Originally Posted by woods223

Have been following this thread with mild interest.Out of interest I have just spent the last hour playing around with three rifles: 2x winchester model 70 and one howa 1500. primed case in chamber bolt closed uncocked. all rifles dropped on floor with force butt first multiple times. Also dropped rifles on floor as can happen when you arse-up when hunting ( be honest, we've all done that at some time.) Not once did primers ( cci, federal, winchester ) ignite. Tried setting primers off by resting large phillips screwdriver against firing pin, which is recessed approx 6mm down from bolt shroud, and hitting with hand multiple times. Not once did a primer ignite. The only way I ignited a primer was by hitting firing pin with punch and hammer. I remember doing this exact test back in the late '70's due to this same to[pic of discussion.
I generally hunt solo and when doing so bush hunting where there are animals about I have used the practice of having a round chambered, bolt closed and uncocked. I also use rifle cocked and safety on when there's animals about. When hunting with others, which I generally avoid like the plague, rifle is carried empty chamber closed bolt. Like many on here, I have spent countless hours walking around with semi-auto firearms "hot" so am used to 'relying' on safeties that have been tested prior to use. I know I'll get some adverse reactions but I'm comfortable with my methods, havn't fcked-up in 50 yrs using firearms. What does make me nervous is the number of people walking around using 'half-cock' on the likes of savage,tikka and other brands which will discharge when the trigger is pulled. I've seen this first-hand and it wakes you up. Anyhow, as always point firearms in a safe direction.

Interesting that someone has now done the test, cheers for that. How do you carry a rifle 'round chambered bolt closed and uncocked' ? The bolt cocks on opening in a Mod 70 so the rifle is 'cocked' when a round is chambered. If the trigger is held back, the sear is released but the firing pin tip is resting on the primer under tension and has not completed it's full travel so is still 'cocked' I believe ? It is 'uncocked' when it has completed it's travel.
On my Mod 700 I filed a tiny slot on the apex of the cocking piece to produce a solid 'half open bolt position' and complete the last part of the stalk with a round chambered and the bolt cocked and in the half open position, but 'cupped' between thumb and forefinger.

My take home is that nothing is totally safe except a chamber checked empty with a physical and not visual check

Originally Posted by Moutere

Took most of his hair off too!

The guy in the second rank would have got a hua of a tonging-up!

That polish army video clip.......Oh well i suppose the world can put that down to another "friendly fire incident".

How many of these "friendly fire incidents" within the New Zealand military and New Zealand police don't come out via the media to the NZ public?

Originally Posted by Moutere

Fuck! That could have ended far worse.

Originally Posted by Rushy

Fuck! That could have ended far worse.

Remember that they are just undertaking rehearsals for a salute. These days salutes are all done using blanks.

This is true but a blank point blank in the back of your swede still not a good day.

@johnd that is shithouse alright
Only used that walking around shooting when I am hanging onto the rifle.

Just back from a few days in the bush with a few other guys, 2 x Model 7's, 1 Montana, 2 T3's, 1 howa. some observations:

1. The shitty thing about Tikka is the need to put the safety to fire to extract a round.
2. Montana - 3 position wing safety seems really useful and safe - way better than Tikka.
3. when hunting in pairs only the front person would chamber a round once in the zone, and most were using combination of half bolt/safety.
4. Only 2 guys would carefully check there was no round in their chamber, others trusted their memory etc. I'm one of the 2 as I've seen it where someone chambers a round but does not close the bolt - thereby the round is not extracted when pulling bolt back.... I'm thinking to take a chamber flag for each person in next time....
5. Guys in 50's and older - all had eyesight not as good as it once was - but all realised that and were taking measures to help with target ID, mainly binos, also glasses, getting eyes lasered etc. All seemed to realise that despite decades of experience - mis-identification COULD happen to them and were very wary of it - which is great and the right attitude.
6. Firearm safety was discussed every day - also very cool. No-one was too cool to talk about different ideas and own up to their errors.

I guess thats what I look for - people realising that it could happen to them if they are not careful, I would not hunt with anyone who was adamant that they could never make a mistake. The upside is that everyone was very very conscious of the issues.

Originally Posted by Northkiwi

Just back from a few days in the bush with a few other guys, 2 x Model 7's, 1 Montana, 2 T3's, 1 howa. some observations:

1. The shitty thing about Tikka is the need to put the safety to fire to extract a round.
2. Montana - 3 position wing safety seems really useful and safe - way better than Tikka.
3. when hunting in pairs only the front person would chamber a round once in the zone, and most were using combination of half bolt/safety.
4. Only 2 guys would carefully check there was no round in their chamber, others trusted their memory etc. I'm one of the 2 as I've seen it where someone chambers a round but does not close the bolt - thereby the round is not extracted when pulling bolt back.... I'm thinking to take a chamber flag for each person in next time....
5. Guys in 50's and older - all had eyesight not as good as it once was - but all realised that and were taking measures to help with target ID, mainly binos, also glasses, getting eyes lasered etc. All seemed to realise that despite decades of experience - mis-identification COULD happen to them and were very wary of it - which is great and the right attitude.
6. Firearm safety was discussed every day - also very cool. No-one was too cool to talk about different ideas and own up to their errors.

I guess thats what I look for - people realising that it could happen to them if they are not careful, I would not hunt with anyone who was adamant that they could never make a mistake. The upside is that everyone was very very conscious of the issues.

Totally agree with you, we do all make mistakes with gun handling and should expect to make mistakes and have layers of safety measures that prevent an accident. Your No.4 may be the cause of more accidents than anything else. I like to do a physical chamber check with the little finger ( learnt this in NZDF TF) and not trust visual checks

All resolved by the simple rule of "Do not point a firearm, loaded or otherwise, at something you do not intend to destroy."

See a lot of weekend warriors who claim to be "professional deer managers" running round with a Harris bipod and heavy moderator stuck on the end of their rifle, combined with a sling carried across the shoulder with muzzle up, and the rifle makes a slow but steady progression rearward, usually towards the head of the poor sod who is paying the person in question over £100 an outing on the promise of being allowed to shoot a deer. Usually with a live round in the chamber...

This is why I don't pay for stalking, and why I prefer going it alone!

Does not matter how many positions your rifle has for being 'safe' ( I prefer 2, either 'On' or 'Not quite On', like a light switch), good firearms manners and handling needs to be ingrained and no special technique like half bolt/ half cock/ decocked bolt is going to save you from a fuckup. Just remove the possibility for the fuckup in the first place!

May have already said it but Mrs Finnwolf and I check each other’s rifle to confirm they are indeed ’empty’ at the end of a hunt.

And I ask her to confirm her safety is on after considering a shot/having a shot. (Semi-auto)