Thread: Un safety habits taught at Gun City.

the issue imo is that in a shop there is very limited spots to point a firearm with out pointing it at someone (maybe not directly) but if a round were to go off which it wont as the shop sales person and your self should of made 100% SURE that the firearm was cleared and safe a round would go trough displays shelf's etc with still plenty of power to kill someone standing behind maybe gun shops should have an proper spot for this with a barrier so no one can walk in front and maybe even a target on the wall to take aim at and dry fire a couple of times and no pointing of firearms is to take place unless its in that spot

that's the only way I can see of pointing firearms in a safe direction in a shop

Safe zone with a target on the wall would be a good idea.

Gives people something to aim at, kinda like a fly painted on a urinal

A 50 MTR range out back of every gun store with them providing half a box of amo to try out for free .

It's pretty regular to see someone pointing a shotgun at another's face at clay bird shoots, it's perfectly safe given the gun is checked and all people know what's going on.

How on earth is someone ever going to look at a rifles muzzle if every firearm must be treated as loaded???

I agree, in gunshops, no one should be pointing firearms at others but only because not everyone in the store may know what is going on or if the firearm is safe or not. No live ammunition should ever be chambered either.

I've never seen anyone point a gun at someones face at a clay shoot pretty sure you'd get told to feck off and don't come back at the clubs i shoot at the usual action open gun in a safe direction applies you don't have to stand directly in front of the barrel to check gunfit

Originally Posted by jakesae101

I've never seen anyone point a gun at someones face at a clay shoot pretty sure you'd get told to feck off and don't come back at the clubs i shoot at the usual action open gun in a safe direction applies you don't have to stand directly in front of the barrel to check gunfit

Ive shot at 10? clubs throughout the country and it is a VERY common practice for gun fit.
Guy that fitted my Mrs gun was ex H&H and did the same.. the medals on his wall from last 50yrs back up his expertise..

Id like someone to explain how you fit a shotgun without doing it..??

If I ever had to point a shotgun at someone helping me fit it, I would make VERY sure it is unloaded, and pretty sure the pointee would do the same

We are getting a bit far of the topic of someone having a firearm pointed at them when they have no idea if it is loaded or safe...

Context dear Liza

I have found a very simple solution to this problem

I don't set foot in gun city

ok , so I am in chch for a few weeks , went into the guncity here , .... nice big shop friendly enough sales people ... BUT .....a youngish female sales clerk was showing a young guy a trap gun , ... and from behind the counter was aiming into the store (ie at me ) .... now I know its 99% chance its empty .... but I still thought of this forum straight away , ...she then preceded to walk to the far end with the unbroken shotty over her shoulder barrel pointing backwards (into the store again) ...she was also very loud with all her advice , ... and was almost on show .... I believe (imho) that good firearm management should be shown at all times , . good practice is to not point a loaded or unloaded weapon at anyone , ever ... even if some one is just testing eye relief or butt length .. etc ... surely there is a better way . im not delicate ... but gun shops should be 100% professional at all times ....

Originally Posted by stumpy

ok , so I am in chch for a few weeks , went into the guncity here , .... nice big shop friendly enough sales people ... BUT .....a youngish female sales clerk was showing a young guy a trap gun , ... and from behind the counter was aiming into the store (ie at me ) .... now I know its 99% chance its empty .... but I still thought of this forum straight away , ...she then preceded to walk to the far end with the unbroken shotty over her shoulder barrel pointing backwards (into the store again) ...she was also very loud with all her advice , ... and was almost on show .... I believe (imho) that good firearm management should be shown at all times , . good practice is to not point a loaded or unloaded weapon at anyone , ever ... even if some one is just testing eye relief or butt length .. etc ... surely there is a better way . im not delicate ... but gun shops should be 100% professional at all times ....

@stumpy, that was likely to be Chloe Tipple, one of the daughters of the owner/founder David Tipple.

I agree on 100% (minimum) professionalism in shops. They are often dealing with newbies and should be reinforcing the basics with their actions. At Gunworks there is now a sign outside the door asking you to unpack your firearms and check them before entering; obviously come across too many that weren't.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

@stumpy, that was likely to be Chloe Tipple, one of the daughters of the owner/founder David Tipple.

I agree on 100% (minimum) professionalism in shops. They are often dealing with newbies and should be reinforcing the basics with their actions. At Gunworks there is now a sign outside the door asking you to unpack your firearms and check them before entering; obviously come across too many that weren't.

if it was Chloe ,shes an international trap shooter so should be well aware of safety protocols and i must say ive usually found her pretty switched on safety wise..I was in there recently to having a wee gaze on what is my next intended purchase.salesman was extremely adept with the safety precautions !00% so.in fact it struck me maybe someone has read the riot act to all the GC staff of recent times.

Originally Posted by gadgetman

@stumpy, that was likely to be Chloe Tipple, one of the daughters of the owner/founder David Tipple.

I agree on 100% (minimum) professionalism in shops. They are often dealing with newbies and should be reinforcing the basics with their actions. At Gunworks there is now a sign outside the door asking you to unpack your firearms and check them before entering; obviously come across too many that weren't.

Yeah Robbies an old soldier from the old school. He was taught right at WTD.

I think you might have misconstrued my statement.

I didn't say to not do it(it being; opening an action and showing clear prior to passing a firearm). I said it doesn't bother me and if you following the "golden rules" it's a non issue.

Yes it is in the Arms code. Yes it is probably common place in NZ, not in GC apparently though.

It is not standard practice in a military environment(AUS & CDN).

I have been handed or picked up a loaded firearm on numerous occasions. I did not have a choice in having them open the action first. I did not feel nervous or bothered. I followed the rules and handled the firearm safely.

If it IS an issue to you, and you wish to fully abide by the Arms Code, then by all means insist on the action be opened prior to you receiving the firearm.

Originally Posted by Koshogi

I think you might have misconstrued my statement.

I didn't say to not do it(it being; opening an action and showing clear prior to passing a firearm). I said it doesn't bother me and if you following the "golden rules" it's a non issue.

Yes it is in the Arms code. Yes it is probably common place in NZ, not in GC apparently though.

It is not standard practice in a military environment(AUS & CDN).

I have been handed or picked up a loaded firearm on numerous occasions. I did not have a choice in having them open the action first. I did not feel nervous or bothered. I followed the rules and handled the firearm safely.

If it IS an issue to you, and you wish to fully abide by the Arms Code, then by all means insist on the action be opened prior to you receiving the firearm.

Do you know for a fact it's not standard practise in the aussie military? NZ usually copies everything Australia does and in the nzdf accepting a steyr without being shown its clear will end up in a run to the top of that big fuck off hill over there or up downs.
surely legislation involving the removal of trigger groups on displayed firearms is the only way to go?

My point was (and remains so) that it can still be unsafe to accept a firearm from someone who hasn't checked to see whether the action is clear. There is the chance that the firearm is loaded and the unsafe dickhead who hasn't checked it may even have his or her fat little digit wrapped around the trigger when they attempt to hand it to you. They don't have to have the firearm pointing at you to make it an unsafe thing to do as it could be accidentally discharged by said dickhead resulting in someone else being shot apart from the person they're handing the firearm to.

Therein lies the logic of my earlier reply to you that it's not a non issue and the reason why it's mentioned in the Arms code and taught by the Mountain Safety Council.

I was a D.A. range officer for three years and I can tell you had anyone accepted a firearm that hadn't been shown to be clear from another person then both individuals would be severely reprimanded. If I failed to do so then I would get my arse kicked even harder by the other shooters present.

You can never be too safe with firearms.