Thread: Warning shot for gun owners

Originally Posted by Eion

I'll chuck in my two cents. A right is, "something to which one has a just claim", or, "something that you are morally or legally allowed to do". So by the definitions, which are one and the same, owning a firearm isn't a right. We have the right to attempt to get a firearms license, when we have a license we have a right to a firearm. So because there is a legal requirement that is not met by everyone (having a license) it is not a universal right.

So if there is no right to posses a firearm, why does the Arms Act say that a person cannot possess a firearm without a licence? Surely if the right does not exist in the first place, then there is no requirement to place a restriction on the right ?

Originally Posted by Kscott

Ohh ffs.

Can we PLEASE leave NSA stuff to the NSA forums ?

Why do you think firearms ownership is exclusively NSA stuff ?

Originally Posted by krewzr

So if there is no right to posses a firearm, why does the Arms Act say that a person cannot possess a firearm without a licence? Surely if the right does not exist in the first place, then there is no requirement to place a restriction on the right ?

Unless Im not understanding this right you're agreeing with what he said. you have the right to apply for the licence but its not a right to own a firearm

Originally Posted by Toby

Unless Im not understanding this right you're agreeing with what he said. you have the right to apply for the licence but its not a right to own a firearm

I thought firearms ownership was an inherent right in a free democratic society... but subject to any over-riding limitation in law. So there is a right to own a firearm, but to exercise that right, a person must have a firearms licence which provides an exemption from the general restriction preventing the exercise of that right - imposed by the Arms Act... but I stand to be corrected if anyone can provide an alternative explanation.

Originally Posted by krewzr

Why do you think firearms ownership is exclusively NSA stuff ?

It may not be the case but the point is this forum has a rule of no political discussions as experience has proven that it always ends in abuse and thats not wanted or tolerated here.
Discussions on rights etc are open to personal interpretation so chances are high individuals will disagree, possibly why there are wars everywhere but who wants to talk about that.

See even my example on wars can open a fight cos one individual supports one side and so on.
Do this : informative stuff like well Hunting and Shooting with maybe some bush craft tips, Equipment reports, a story of the latest back breaking trip into the bush and the success, maybe some bush receipes
a few good possum trapping spots and you know hunting and shooting stuff. Out doorsy stuff equipment stuff and on and on .
Dont do this :

1. So where can I find this legal restriction that says I have a right to own a firearm if I am a fit and proper person?
2. There was an assertion made on this thread that firearms ownership in New Zealand is a privilege; not a right. Just wondering if anyone can tell me where that came from?

Or any of that other stuff you posted. Majority dont want it. Just upsets folks and I m pretty confident you know the law statutes and all the info/ answers possibly better than most so you re just winding folks up..
Why not try using the forum in the spirit of others without all of the winding people up.. Happens nearly every post you participate in.

Just my thoughts take it or leave it but carry on and some one will start a thread asking for votes about your place on this forum me thinks..

Hope you get in the hills for a roar hunt , hot or cold good to just do it ...

Wasn't this thread about 2 dumb asses having their FALs taken off them for spotlighting? I for one would take great exception to any one i knew who did this. Having had a spotlight come my way a few years back. I would even consider grassing them up. But a right or privilege? Who cares? Just be glad we can go out and put some lead in the air when we choose to. A lot of people in a lot of countries can not.

Originally Posted by Happy

It may not be the case but the point is this forum has a rule of no political discussions as experience has proven that it always ends in abuse and thats not wanted or tolerated here.
Discussions on rights etc are open to personal interpretation so chances are high individuals will disagree, possibly why there are wars everywhere but who wants to talk about that.

See even my example on wars can open a fight cos one individual supports one side and so on.
Do this : informative stuff like well Hunting and Shooting with maybe some bush craft tips, Equipment reports, a story of the latest back breaking trip into the bush and the success, maybe some bush receipes
a few good possum trapping spots and you know hunting and shooting stuff. Out doorsy stuff equipment stuff and on and on .
Dont do this :

1. So where can I find this legal restriction that says I have a right to own a firearm if I am a fit and proper person?
2. There was an assertion made on this thread that firearms ownership in New Zealand is a privilege; not a right. Just wondering if anyone can tell me where that came from?

Or any of that other stuff you posted. Majority dont want it. Just upsets folks and I m pretty confident you know the law statutes and all the info/ answers possibly better than most so you re just winding folks up..
Why not try using the forum in the spirit of others without all of the winding people up.. Happens nearly every post you participate in.

Just my thoughts take it or leave it but carry on and some one will start a thread asking for votes about your place on this forum me thinks..

Hope you get in the hills for a roar hunt , hot or cold good to just do it ...

There was quite a bit of discussion about this issue on this thread prior to anything I posted. I'm not sure why, just because I participate in a current discussion, it gets blamed on the NSA and certain individuals take offence. Perhaps I ought to create another profile with a different name?

I am simply interested in finding the source of the 'opinion' that ownership of firearms is a privilege in NZ..so far no-one has been able to explain to me where this opinion has come from?

Not sure why that qualifies as being controversial - again no-one has been able to explain why?

Surely hunters and outdoors people are not so overly-sensitive that any discussion about their opinion is considered objectionable ?

Originally Posted by POME

Wasn't this thread about 2 dumb asses having their FALs taken off them for spotlighting?

Sure was.

Originally Posted by krewzr

There was quite a bit of discussion about this issue on this thread prior to anything I posted. I'm not sure why, just because I participate in a current discussion, it gets blamed on the NSA and certain individuals take offence. Perhaps I ought to create another profile with a different name?

I am simply interested in finding the source of the 'opinion' that ownership of firearms is a privilege in NZ..so far no-one has been able to explain to me where this opinion has come from?

Not sure why that qualifies as being controversial - again no-one has been able to explain why?

Surely hunters and outdoors people are not so overly-sensitive that any discussion about their opinion is considered objectionable ?

Not sure but true the thread had some length before your involvement.
Nek minute you then the words Fuck and Anal came along. I felt there was some some baiting being done..
Might be your interrogation style . ha ha ..
Only my opinion.

Originally Posted by Happy

Not sure but true the thread had some length before your involvement.
Nek minute you then the words Fuck and Anal came along. I felt there was some some baiting being done..
Might be your interrogation style . ha ha ..
Only my opinion.

Or possibly when a younger person is asked a question that illustrates a fatal flaw in the reasoning underpinning their stated opinion.. they get frustrated and take the easy way of attacking the person rather than the argument ??

Possibly, and 99% likely, but don't forgot about the "Adult" who lacks common sense and is just here to shit stir and he knows dam well hes doing it.

Originally Posted by Toby

Possibly, and 99% likely, but don't forgot about the "Adult" who lacks common sense and is just here to shit stir and he knows dam well hes doing it.

I hope you're not implying that I'm shit-stirring just by seeking information by asking questions... come to that, I also hope your not implying that I'm an adult.

Originally Posted by krewzr

I hope you're not implying that I'm shit-stirring just by seeking information by asking questions... come to that, I also hope your not implying that I'm an adult.

Sure seems that you are trying to get a bite

Originally Posted by krewzr

I hope you're not implying that I'm shit-stirring just by seeking information by asking questions... come to that, I also hope your not implying that I'm an adult.

I'm implying both. From your intelligence post I thought you'd be intelligent enough to work that one out. Yup you can go say this boy said this and that and agrees with you on the other forum now...

Originally Posted by Toby

Possibly, and 99% likely, but don't forgot about the "Adult" who lacks common sense and is just here to shit stir and he knows dam well hes doing it.

Don't take offence Toby. I'm just saying that we ought not fear evidence that leads us to the truth; even if that displaces our most deeply held beliefs. If someone asks you a question mate, and you feel the immediate need to attack the questioner...chances are your assertion has some holes in it - take a breath and come up with some reasoned answer. Adopting this approach will help you in all areas of your life... including hunting: if a deer gets away on you, review your facts and ask yourself why? Next time, you have a better chance of not repeating the mistake.

I'm not here to shit-stir. I'm just interested in where people get the idea that firearms ownership is a privilege... I'm hoping that someone who believes in the 'privilege hypothesis' can explain where that comes from? Few years gone by; many different forums, and I have found not a single person who can qualify the hypothesis.