Thread: Yet another shooting incident in the states

Tussock

Knives really are not a good option for self defence, see post 67

The police are not armed because they "like power" They deal with all the scumbags and lowlife wankers on your and my behalf...

Originally Posted by Tussock

Your really going to suggest that a knife is a bad defensive weapon because it requires you to be in contact with your attacker?

Yes, absolutely

Originally Posted by Tussock

If they are not in contact with you, you have successfully defended yourself. Run away now.

Running away is the #1 self defence technique

Originally Posted by ebf

Yes, absolutely



Running away is the #1 self defence technique

wrong..the number one defence technique is to immobilze your target/attacker before getting the fuck out of there........... Infantry 101!!!

Originally Posted by Neckshot

wrong..the number one defence technique is to immobilze your target/attacker before getting the fuck out of there........... Infantry 101!!!

Id chose a concealed carry 454 Casull and the 240g XPT hornady @ 1800fps

Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Id chose a concealed carry 454 Casull and the 240g XPT hornady @ 1800fps

Dirty Harry is alive and well

Originally Posted by Tussock

The point of all this is that gun control will "save" a few lives. So will no gun control. You could save far more lives by banning fatty sugary foods. Huge numbers of lives by banning alcohol. Restrict vehicle use entirely, make the speed limit 40ks an hour. More lives "saved". Ban sport. People are killed playing sport all the time.

Its all spin and emotive rhetoric. The most dangerous component of all are the people who can not recognize it when they see it. All of humanities worst atrocities were committed by people that swallowed emotive rhetoric. People who were willing to swallow a line have killed, mutilated, tortured and even eaten, more people, in the history of human society than all the mentally ill people combined.

My favorite pro gun news feed. Keeping the balance.
Map Of Self Defense Stories Using Firearms | Guns Save Lives

You, sir, win teh internets!

Thank you for very eloquently hitting the nail on the head.

I'm constantly amazed at how few people recognise when they are being manipulated. Calls to emotion are generally the last tool in the box when you have no actual evidence or logic to fall back on. How would I know? Selling unpopular ideas, or creating a halfway believable rationale for someone elses ideas, is a fairly substantial chunk of what I do for a living.

The day people actually wise up to how often they are manipulated is the day my job gets a lot harder. Fortunately, the chances of that happening is fairly low. Sad, but true.

To those who don't want CCW then you have no fear, as no one is forcing you to carry-it would be up to you entirely to choose to or not (not that I think CCW will come to NZ anytime soon).

What I would like to see is the ability of a home owner to lawfully defend his or her dwelling and those who live within it without the threat of charges being laid for doing so. Not the outside of the property so to speak but within the actual dwelling if the home owner or resident/s feel they are under threat of serious harm or death.
To often those under threat have been charged for using a firearm which has been deemed unreasonably force when the home owner has been in a darkened house and taken by surprise, scared and unable to exactly know the intentions of the intruder.

I doubt that will happen either. I have been in a home invasion and it was shit scary. I had nothing to defend myself with but my hands or locking the bedroom door and letting the intruders take what I had worked hard to own. However a stout kick from one of them would have tumbled my door in easily. Luckily for me turning on the lights and calling out made them leave the house, but many others have not been so lucky.

So if feeling good by being able to defend myself makes me power hungry then im power hungry, but it would make me feel far safer to have that option.

It works! Homeowner Shoots Pedregosa Street Prowler The Santa Barbara Independent

Cheers

Originally Posted by Littledog

To those who don't want CCW then you have no fear, as no one is forcing you to carry-it would be up to you entirely to choose to or not (not that I think CCW will come to NZ anytime soon).

Flawed argument littledog. Think about smoking regs. The reason for no smoking in public places is not the harm it does to the smoker, but passive smoke for those who choose not to smoke.

You need to look at the argument from both sides.

Originally Posted by ebf

Flawed argument littledog. Think about smoking regs. The reason for no smoking in public places is not the harm it does to the smoker, but passive smoke for those who choose not to smoke.

You need to look at the argument from both sides.

You need to take your own advice...

Originally Posted by Sidney

You need to take your own advice...

sidney, dude ! come on...

the argument they are putting forward is like saying well it's ok for me to drive at 200 km/h because if you don't want to then you don't have to... actions have consequences. saying something like CCW is ok, coz you dont have to do it if you dont want to completely ignores the majority of the population that specifically do not want every second or third person walking around with a concealed firearm. and forget about tactical or self-defense training, what most folks need is to train the muscle between their ears to think clearly and calmly during a crisis.

i am more than happy living in a society where we have a small armed police force, responsible for maintaining order, as opposed to every tom, dick and harry walking around packing. the cops here are very aware of the extremely serious repercussions of shooting someone, and in the majority of cases would rather try to calm the situation than escalate it. that is the balance I prefer, like I said early on, there are loads of places around the globe where you can live with alternate regimes, personally the setup in NZ works fine for me

Originally Posted by Tussock

But your not making the logical link between those two things? The purpose of the knife is not to attack the person. Thats not defense. Its to keep the attacker away. And for that its an extremely effective tool. No real way around it. If you can only use it when the close with you, then its doing its job. They cant close with you, and thats the objective.

Your thinking about offense, not defense.

Tim the moment you pull the knife YOU are escalating the situation and taking on an offensive role.

As for the rest of your post.... Er maybe a bit more time walking in the bush than worrying about who is out to get you ?

Originally Posted by Tussock

Your just making all this up right? Who said anything about pulling it. Self defence training, which is what the context of this discussion is, is about defending yourself. As in preventing yourself from coming to harm. Your describing it as escalation in the legal sense. Better get raped than jeopardize your legal position right?

The current line that your supposed to let anyone do anything they like to you, dont defend yourself because thats "escalating" the situation, wait for the police and then get counselling afterwards does not sit well with me.

It would sit better if we had police you could call and they would actually come. Maybe they should stop worrying about rifle magazines and go follow up on a few burglaries.

I assume your "worrying about whos out to get you" line relates to my comments on people swallowing emotive rhetoric. It amuses me that humans have a few thousand years of recorded history and through that time, have done the exact same things, in the exact same way, over and over. And then, in 60 years people decide its stopped, and we can just repeal all the laws we put in place to stop it in the first place. Then if you make the rash suggestion that history does in fact have the potential to repeat its self, like it has done for millennia, its implied your a kook and worried about whos out to get you

A fine definition of stupidity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different outcome.

You are twisting what he said to suit yourself, pulling a knife which is likely to inflict lethal wounds in a normal confrontation in the street is escalating the situation. Read section 48 and 56 of the Crimes Act, you may learn something. There is nothing wrong with defending yourself, but a knife condstitutes deadly force, there are much better tools than a knife for general self defence.

When did you call Police and they didn't come? Circumstances? I know of no Police Officers that have been tasked to find people with large magazines, however I know of plenty that are regularly been tasked to attend burglaries and target burglars. Do some research before posting bullshit, you have no idea.

Originally Posted by Tussock

Your just making all this up right? Who said anything about pulling it. Self defence training, which is what the context of this discussion is, is about defending yourself. As in preventing yourself from coming to harm. Your describing it as escalation in the legal sense. Better get raped than jeopardize your legal position right?

hang on, so explain to me how you are going to "defend yourself" with a knife without pulling it and brandishing it toward this attacker ? are you just going to tell him/her that you have a knife and they will mysteriously stop attacking you ?

Originally Posted by ebf

They (edit: ebf is referring to police, I misquoted - Ryan) deal with all the scumbags and lowlife wankers on your and my behalf...

Just quietly, the police face the exact same threats as the public.

Originally Posted by Ryan

Just quietly, the police face the exact same threats as the public.

In a hell of a lot higher rate than the average citizen.