Is anyone running this breed for hunting? What do you think of them?
Very curious about them.
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Is anyone running this breed for hunting? What do you think of them?
Very curious about them.
Not sure about the Italiano, but we have a Barcco a Lotto on the farm and he's is a nice enough dog if you don't mind the noise.:)
one of these??
Attachment 77560
nice looking hound
@Shearer We have a pointer who should have been named "Sir Barksalot"
slobber merchants.
something a bit different that for sure.....a member from this forum has one.
@te_ferrari has one. Not many around
I had the pleasure and opportunity to witness @teFerrarri working her Bracco over an Opening Day week ... the word that springs to my mind is 'majestic' ... we were in paddocks of chou and swedes ... my little Breton may well have been in a kauri forest, the chou being so tall ... @Malhunting, I am sure teFarrarri would only be more than happy to discuss the breed with you ... I have a lovely foto of him, but cannot download it as the host cannot be found ... dang ...
More than happy to discuss the breed and for anyone interested to meet Samson. Now im nearly fit again theres an opportunity for a walk with the gun too. Great companions and my boy is certainly a keen hunter, but they are a demanding breed, not suitable as kennel dogs as they do not tolerate separation well. Ideal as a family dog with regular company and a firm but fair hand as they can be very headstrong and stubborn.....even to their own detriment.
Samson produces feather and furred game for the gun, has accounted for deer on the hoof and tracked a wounded stag we found had been shot which had died some distance away.
I have a mate in Europe who has them, he really rates them. Once again, get working blood, most of what you will find here will be show blood and while they will hunt they will be bloody hard yakka to train. Let me know if you want an intro to my mate, if you're serious about one you will do so much better to import a proper one than a import here of a show dog dressed up to go hunting.
I love the European system where there is no prejudice of a working dog being in the ring ... he has to get an Excellent rating in the show ring to gain his Trialler status ... no matter how brilliant he is in the field ... which keeps the conformation, the allure both correct for the breed.
I see it the other way. I think every show dog must place in a trial before it can be bred :P
kawhia, are you referring to the TAN and REEP ... Tests d'Aptitudes Naturelles and the Rapport en Eau Profonde (water test) which is for dogs up to two years old (I do not know the German translation for these tests)... dogs here can be awarded a QC over two years of age ... I do not believe we can make real comparisons between these tests with any great certainty ...
That is the French test, German prufungs are under the jghv which like the French system all comes under the FCI and all state a test/trial requirement... I think we should make real comparisons with our own dogs, I think that void is where the nzvhdta is suppose to sit.
At the very least a breed relevant QC under the pointer setter club would be a good start.
Put as simply as I can. Showing tests for nothing. The judges are often devoid of knowledge of the breed so instead rely on a written breed standard which can be "interpreted", if it is "interpreted" by someone who has no knowledge of the use of the dog and the expectations of it, it quickly becomes scewed, but they still judge a "winner". Other breeders, who also do not hunt, look to what made a judge make a decision and breed for that quality, it has nothing to do with hunting, nothing to do with dog purpose, it only has to do with how a fat woman interpreted a written description of a dog. OK saying a "Fat woman" was wrong, it is also likely to be a very cute gay little man. NOTHING that happens in the show ring has any possible positive outcome for a working dog.. none, never, zilch and anyone who claims it does is delusional and full of shit and playing games with dogs. Some of us have more respect for our chosen breeds and their purpose and how to ensure they do not go backwards as to subject to them to this crap. It is why when I encounter ANYONE who tries to show an actual outcome from showing a dog I get pissed off and know I am dealing with one of several things. 1. people who know the game is bullshit but their ego denies the facts and just take the ribbons. 2. People who are not bright enough to work out what they have been told about shows is not real. 3. Complete Idiots.
No dog has EVER been improved by a breed standard or show ring. We do not judge the Melbourne Cup by having the horses parade in the birdcage and have an obese person pick the prettiest... there is a requirement of performance, and sometimes the ugliest bastard wins because it is the best.
This is a gundog forum, that makes it diametrically opposed to ANYTHING to do with show dogs. Mentioning show dogs in here is like mentioning porch chop recipes in a synagogue!
No Gundog, in fact NO DOG, ever had it's confirmation improved as a result of showing... ever and I hereby publicly challenge you to show one single instance.
:D:D:D
The revised breed standards of the NZKC, taken from the UK, are indeed bereft in construction unlike the previous breed standards ... the only way to make any sense of a breed standard is to have the one from which the country of origin abides to ...
If anyone breeding purebred dogs cannot at least skim through a breed standard from the country of origin then to my mind they are the very ones to wreck a breed ... and if you cannot get a dog that is at least correct to its breed standard (considering the cost of a pup) it is simply not good enough ... this is my opinion and I am sticking to it ...!!
You see, you still completely miss that it is FUNDEMENTAL purpose that has to be judged, not whether it's back is perfectly straight. No form of performance will ever be judged in a show ring and so there is no benchmark to gauge a show dogs potential to work and no inclusion in any breeding program to improve working traits, unless it trials at the highest standard and in most instances in NZ our trials are not that high of standard anyway, the pigeon trials especially have slowly been changed to suits specific dogs... so guess what people are breeding, whether they are the best gundogs or not.
This is where i am a little different from most dog nutters. My driving force, what I am about, is good working dogs working. I don;t care about bloody tweed, beauty pageants for dogs, and as time goes by I increasingly have little time for trials which are beginning to test trial dogs and NOT hunting dogs.
The first most important step in diminishing the integrity of a breed and the purpose it was designed for is to apply a breed standard to the animal. I can provide dozens, or more, exa,ple of everything from [pigeons, cattle. roosters, rabbits, goats, dogs cats who have had the initial integrity 100% compromised due to someone trying to judge them against a standard. The standard is, or should be.... WORK. I want a hunting dog, not a bloody show pony. But I respect your right to play your own game with your french pointers, speak to them in french, champion their show titles and produce bugger all for a hunter that just wants a bloody good dog.
You got me a bit wrong there, Ruff ... the show world is simply the show world, warts and gazeboes ... it is a travesty that probably ninety + percent of gundogs in the ring will never ever know what their role is ... let me make it clear to you, I sell puppies ONLY TO HUNTERS ... and I will only ever sell them to hunters ... I follow the French breed standard and their WORKING STANDARD ... why? because the integrity of lineage must be maintained; to me it is RESPECT for the great minds behind the dogs ...
And as we are domiciled in a country so remote from the source of our breeds, no compromise can be taken ...
You crack me up, for sure ... if I want to speak to a dog in the language of his first commands, I will ... :)
I've always secretly fancied a sequin jacket :yaeh am not durnk:
Sorry Mikee. I just miss the old show vs. work chestnut :D
And every Trial dog must be placed in a show before it is bred from,
You're a page too late ducdog :D
that would kill off the working dogs and lines.
Why ? I agree some show dogs couldn't do the job they were bred to do, but others do their job extremely well and surely if a "show" dog was expected to win at a trial before it could be bred from, then the reverse would be true as well, a trial dog must win at a show before it was bred from, like Crufts, they have a game keepers class ( Labradors ) to be honest I think some people who breed strictly working dogs with no regard to breed type do that breed a disservice, form and function , not only do I want a dog to work but I also want the dog to look like the breed it is meant to be.
:thumbsup: pass the pop corn...the two will never meet.