Thread: Versatile hunting dog test

Thank you!
Anyone with a Versatile hunting dog (HPR) who is interested in the tests or testing their dog can contact me on my email which is clear on the website and I can send them info they need. Too big to put on general section. Not sending out for someone who just wants to tear them apart on internet though.

Originally Posted by el borracho

Agreed club matters are club matters and not for a forum to bandy around and general business is best kept in an AGM format-the rules and regs and tests are not confidential subject matters one thinks ? I cannot see why parties interested cant pre-read requirements if posted on a club web site, I haven't had a look to see if they are but then again I personally have no need in this particular area of the versatile tests.
The important thing is that someone is running them .I say this -a few do a shit load of work and whilst some may not like it that work should never be bad mouthed unless you yourself are willing to take over the plough and commit to doing it your self -its for the pure love of the sport and breed that the doers are doing and the rest of us can actually attend anything at all !!better to give thanks to them for their efforts

Thank you Brian for attempting to bring the rhetoric out... you have succeeded and I will help decipher it for you and everyone... and here is why...

I am about better dogs for hunters. YES, REAL HUNTERS, Hunters that need solid working bred dogs who have breeders concerned with the very reproduction of inherit qualities which makes training a dog for a specific purpose an easier thing to do than it would be than if you just started with "any old pooch". Any old pooch includes gundog breeds too far removed from real work to be considered working dogs because they have been compromised for other purposes... hunting dogs are dogs bred to hunt... NOTHING ELSE... yes, you can dual or triple any dog, but no one can make a sensible argument that there can be not some form of compromise in this.

GSP has said she will send someone "Any information they need".. is that by what she thinks they need or will she send all of the information... if all of the information was requested by an interested party would it be forthcoming? My information is that even people within the assn cannot get all of the information... there are some documents she believes ONLY she should have... no one else.

Here's the rub... I am a fan of the concept of the NZVHDTA i think it has massive potential to help NZ Hunters procure better dogs... but not while it is held to ransom for the purposes of specific breeders and people running the assn as their hobby. The dogs are meant to be the hobby, the assn an offshoot of that... this is not the case where running the assn is the focus and keeping a couple of dogs the justification. The assn should not be held to ransom, it's members kept devoid of the information, people who could advance the cause (Capable of running the advanced tests but shunned) are kept at arms length to ensure the person holding it to ransom can continue to do so.

It seems we hunters have to put store in the results/findings of this assn, yet two ladies in this very thread who want to poohoo what I say are open to the question... Have either of you ever shot a deer over an indicating a dog? Pre-empting the irrelevant nature of this question in the response i will offer right now it is very relevant... hunters will never take the opinion of someone who doesn't do what they require of a dog. The assn stands to be the best thing ever... if these people would allow real hunters with real dogs to be involved at the coalface... they don't and won't it seems!

Time for the truth GSP... are you in a position that YOU believe cannot be voted on as conveyor? If a group of people who see real merit in the goals and objectives of the assn, if run properly, come in and vote you out? Can people get involved and take this forward for the betterment, even if that means you must step aside, or is it a reality that they cannot remove you even if they believe it is for the betterment of hunters, hunting dogs and the assn? I'm picking you won;t even answer these questions because we do know the answers don't we? You do tell people, as I understand, that your position is cast in stone, cannot and will never be voted on... is this correct?

I will also state that the inference that this is a personal vendetta between two people is absolute bullshit and a smokescreen. I have never met GSP in person and I do not want to... I have no personal gripe with her other than I see this potentially wonderful concept being bastardised for personal objective when it should stand for better dogs. I have never wavered for standing for better dogs. It seems you have made a directive over my potential membership and attendance but I ask... HAS ANYONE ELSE BEEN CONSULTED IN THIS????? What if people want someone of my experience involved... is your word still the last word... is this another indication of how you run this group????

Maybe GSP can tell us why NONE of the leading handlers of versatiles, with the exception of Jake, who has done a wonderful job with his breed, will have anything to do with the assn, even though they anecdotally tell me they all believe in the concept implicitly but won;t get involved while "certain people" are involved.

Do not try and make this what it is not. I have no reason to put scorn or derision on anyone, especially people I have never met, unless I believe their personal agenda is rising above what is really a viable option for improving NZ Gundogs. Hunters just want good dogs... the test can give a sighter to that... currently they absolutely do not... the moves to make it possible are stopped by, as far as i can ascertain, one person who, at best, might have shot a couple of quail over a versatile dog.... The ones pulling the strings don;t duckshoot over their dogs, don;t shoot deer over their dogs, don;t ever go anywhere they encounter a pig to be tamed, have no control on their dogs around rabbits... and yet, when people who require these qualities in a dog front up they are told to piss off as being disruptive.

NOTICE: A versatile dog is a versatile dog... the tests should reflect this, the people running the tests should have experience in all of the endeavors required of a versatile dog..... if they are to judge them and they should support advancement within the assn to ensure hunters are getting what they want... not just close down the parameters so the tests become an end goal and have no relevance to hunters.

I am sorry if the HOBBY you have chosen is at odds with the reality of real gundogs... you chose that I didn't... I'm just calling you on it.

I have no personal agenda with you or any breeder lurking in therse halls.... not so long as they stand for better dogs, can demonstrate better dogs, are involved with better dogs. otherwise how on earth are they judgeing dogs... what do you girls have to show us at a demonstration with your dogs.... seriously... or is this all just bullshit????

After reading this thread there are 2 things I wouldn't do.

1) Ever join a gun dog club of any description. I already have enough angst in my life.
2) Cross the street to piss on Ruff if he was on fire

Originally Posted by Tahr

After reading this thread there are 2 things I wouldn't do.

1) Ever join a gun dog club of any description. I already have enough angst in my life.
2) Cross the street to piss on Ruff if he was on fire

Why would anyone think wanting better testing for better gundogs was a bad thing? and secondly, under any circumstance, please don;t piss on me...b

You sleeping with one of them or are ya just thick? Your're probably one of those that thinks if you get a "gundog" that is a "gundog" breed it will be a gundog... slowly but surely we can educate the majority to understand this is not the case... there is still a minority who cannot grasp this... sorry!

Originally Posted by Ruff

Why would anyone think wanting better testing for better gundogs was a bad thing? and secondly, under any circumstance, please don;t piss on me...b

You sleeping with one of them or are ya just thick? Your're probably one of those that thinks if you get a "gundog" that is a "gundog" breed it will be a gundog... slowly but surely we can educate the majority to understand this is not the case... there is still a minority who cannot grasp this... sorry!

I've slept with the odd bitch in my time...

But I will tell you something for free, people who write letters that contain words that are underlined or in bold are often borderline personalities or complete fruitcakes.

Originally Posted by Tahr

I've slept with the odd bitch in my time...

But I will tell you something for free, people who write letters that contain words that are underlined or in bold are often borderline personalities or complete fruitcakes.

I agree, it's why I don;t underline anything.

WHY NOT?

Christ! I'm surrounded by them.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Christ! I'm surrounded by them.

I always like your honesty and straight forward no nonsense posts Ruff .I have no idea of the politics of clubs but I do know without one of these members we probably wouldn't have a functioning Auckland Regions GSP club -it is part time by enthusiasts and even then its few small few of those that carry the load .There is little to stop an enthusiastic few setting up their own club up with more advanced teaching -problem , same thing youll find at many clubs lethargy toward commitment and then failure ..................

Originally Posted by el borracho

I always like your honesty and straight forward no nonsense posts Ruff .I have no idea of the politics of clubs but I do know without one of these members we probably wouldn't have a functioning Auckland Regions GSP club -it is part time by enthusiasts and even then its few small few of those that carry the load .There is little to stop an enthusiastic few setting up their own club up with more advanced teaching -problem , same thing youll find at many clubs lethargy toward commitment and then failure ..................

To be fair I have always had and still do have a lot of respect for Gail and what she does for her breed... I've never said a word against her or anything she has bred, for whatever reason she chose to take a shot at me... Que Sera Sera

shes a top lady to be sure ! lets face it we all have opinions and they at times cause offense to someone with onions that differ -its just keeping it all in perspective and remember some skin cats differently or more slowly than another --some like me often use the bulldozer method

Well here is something for all the club types to think about. I for one won't bother with any of them unless someone finally grows a brain and recognises crossbreeds in this country.
You can do blah blah blah, but you don't get recognized, or more to the point, the dog doesn't get recognized if it's a crossbreed.
What the fuck is up with that?

Oh right, hang on. Dog clubs. Nutter clubs. Is there a difference? Maybe a rephrase is needed, nutter dog club members.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Well here is something for all the club types to think about. I for one won't bother with any of them unless someone finally grows a brain and recognises crossbreeds in this country.
You can do blah blah blah, but you don't get recognized, or more to the point, the dog doesn't get recognized if it's a crossbreed.
What the fuck is up with that?

Oh right, hang on. Dog clubs. Nutter clubs. Is there a difference? Maybe a rephrase is needed, nutter dog club members.

I understand your point but the argument is that trials and tests are primarily there to identify the best breeding stock... as a second cross from crossbreeds doesn;t usually breed true it kind of defeats the purpose. Sadly though this brings in another argument... do our current trials and tests find the best breeding stock... in most cases it doesn't so they might as well.

Funny thing to say Ruff, a mate just took a third or maybe fourth gen pup away the other day and is stoked with it already, and it hasn't even been on the hill yet, he's already booked more when they arrive