Thread: What to breed to

Yes of course a line may have been dulled natural ability wise but that given size of our working dog pool in NZ for example you'd have that sorted before a breeding one hopes --even me who knows little of the best combos to mix would have that sorted.
I have watched handlers who you know have less nouce than a brick and probably would do better in a show ring with their animal --they wont ever bring out all the natural ability the dog has to offer

Therefore, by meathead are you meaning temperament or lack of hunting ability...??? a dog can have prey drive but a temperament that is less than desirable...and the show ring is no place for the dog either because should it, heaven forbid gain challenges it is more than likely to be given the opportunity to perpetuate itself...
if you were wanting to purchase a puppy of your chosen breed then the breeders (not all but certainly MOST, if they themselves have brains and a passion for their breeds will breed dogs that have good temperaments and sound prey drive...it is afterall in their BEST interests and the UTMOST BESTEST OF INTERESTS FOR THE BREED for them to make this their breeding mandate.

PS...a person can read all the books in the world and what do they tell you...just someone's opinions and theories (a bit like posts on threads of forums) but if the dog in the field after which you walk for miles and miles is not cutting the mustard, the breeder is going to hear about it...

Originally Posted by el borracho

they wont ever bring out all the natural ability the dog has to offer

you cannot blame the dog for that...but if the dog has prey drive he can and will expose this...one of the things I find mystifying I must say is that so so many people, indeed people I consider who should know awhole lot better...NEVER REALLY OBSERVE THEIR DOGS WHEN THEY ARE IN THE ROUGH...watch your dog and you will learn more about him and how he/his breed work...its stuff not found in books or on Utube.

Thats exactly my point of also observing the trainer not just the animal -the animal may appear to have bad habbits possibly due to poor training right down to purposely blinking birds.

Expand on the rough cover observations please!

Originally Posted by el borracho

Thats exactly my point of also observing the trainer not just the animal -the animal may appear to have bad habbits possibly due to poor training right down to purposely blinking birds.

Expand on the rough cover observations please!

A dog purposely blinking birds...immmmmmm among other things, that can be a lack of experience...many gundogs are gundogs for the duration of the season or Opening Week or maybe even Closing Week...for the rest of the time they are homedogs......there is the neat saying "its legs that get birds not guns" and I think that can be applied to dogs as well...i.e I am adamant in my theory that it is exposure from an early age of puppies in their hunting environment that teaches them so so much...stuff we cannot teach them. I was told that under no circumstances to let my dogs go after fur...what a load of bullocks...I will let the youngster chase the hare...yes, I will...he will do it only once and when he returns to you, falls to the ground in a aphyxiated mass...he's learnt a valuable lesson, next time he will be alot more sensible about heeding the taunts of the hare!!
Every breed has different style, different pace, different wind treatment, different work distance and so on...and every dog within evey breed has his own little ways as well so it is by observation that you learn these things of your dog. You have those who are meticulous in their ground cover, as in covering what seems like every inch of ground; they will seek likely looking places that may well be out of the quartering line, so to speak. You have those that will go to the places that you have shot birds, sometimes even a number of years ago, just to check it out. You have those who require a coulé or roading in because they will point at some distance...the list goes on...each to their own and that is what makes them so exciting to hunt over. None of these subleties makes them good or bad in their work methods...they will secure the bird for you and there will be a retrieve as their reward for their due diligence...

Edited to add: we too all hunt over our dogs differently as well...but one thing I have noticed with some people is their own walking speed...they seem to be in such a rush...you are not being fair to the dog if you are in some walking race...give the dog the chance to suss out the birds...the pheasant can hear all this clatter and he is gone...not fair to the dog...

Blinking can be taught easily enough by to much handler pressure especially with a soft dog --its amazing the bad habits we can install while training .
I dont hunt fur over a pointing bird that I trial -ever.Do you trial your dog?

Why dont you hunt fur with your trial dog? Why not? All it is is a matter of control and letting them experience the agony of the chasse!!! Trial my dog, immmm, am tempted to run my youngster...will see!!!!
Re the blinking...is it really a matter of softness? I still believe it is probably lack of experience...hyperthetically, if a dog blinks a bird and the bird either flies up or runs, what does the blinker dog do? does he chase the bird, is unsteady to the flush? What happens there? Perhaps it is not a matter of softness but undeveloped prey drive.


edited to add: and you know what I think, I think that dummy retrieves, repetitive mind boring retrieves have alot to do with softness...

If you trial and your dog points fur your out!When I hunt which has been little for the past few years I only hunt upland game birds hence also why I discourage fur

But you know when he is on fur and when he is on birds...

Wonder what would happen if you mixed the genetics of different forum members...

Id assume you could create some kind of gunnut monster...

Imagine if we mixed kiwigreg genes with spanner genes in a testtube

after many years without training yes--yep yelp where the f----- my dog

Originally Posted by baldbob

Wonder what would happen if you mixed the genetics of different forum members...

Id assume you could create some kind of gunnut monster...

Imagine if we mixed kiwigreg genes with spanner genes in a testtube

it would have to be put down or added to the list of undesirables-pitt bulls ---------

All this waffle El Borracho. Everyone here knows the answer to your question, and that's to put him to a pointer bitch. Best thing you could do for the setter

my second choice in dogs

Originally Posted by Pointer

All this waffle El Borracho. Everyone here knows the answer to your question, and that's to put him to a pointer bitch. Best thing you could do for the setter

Poor boy, might get a disease!!!