Thread: Where to start

I must admit I haven't read all the thread only the title so tracking wasn't my first thought but rather how to get the dog to understand it deer I want him to find before shooting one hence the skin .I have read a few post on forum in the USA about not dragging a skin for tracking but I wonder about that first scenting experience at home

Don't know why you're debating the point. You've had two people that have done it tell you it's completely unnecessary. I'm not sure what you want.

The first time Quin ever smelled a deer in his life. No introduction required here.

Exactly. You shouldn;t need to have to introduce him to that scent to hunt it... if you do, you got problems....

I Introduce my bird dogs to scent why should a dog you want to find deer be any different and are we talking about a dog that finds deer to shoot or wounded deer after theyre shot --is there a difference ?

No different than bird work I suppose. I don't introduce my dogs to bird scent either other than running them on birds.

Yes blood tracking and indicating are different jobs.

Ditto, I've never had a dog that didn't light up immediately on any animal scent... that when our training comes commences as far as wanted and unwanted... I can see human logic in scent introduction earlier, but realistically given 1) a young dogs curiosity ans 2) the scope of their olfactory senses beyond ours, while it may seem to have merit it doesn't.

I think there are some skills we can teach a dog, other we have to allow them to develop... and scenting and tracking are primary in that for me... having control, introduction to hunting and using their nose and letting them work out all those outdoor smells leads to a dog with more initiative than trying to condition them to a specific scent when young.

my dog knows to hunt birds but deer I would have to introduce that scent and concept to him , he would not just know that's what I want him to hunt .
Introducing scent via a cape I would have thought a good idea to a "young dog starting out" to excite him and let him know that what I am interested in --but then again I don't hunt deer but the concept must be the same for all hunting dogs

Originally Posted by el borracho

my dog knows to hunt birds but deer I would have to introduce that scent and concept to him , he would not just know that's what I want him to hunt

Ever consider that there might be a bit of a difference between an 8 year old english setter and a young dog actually bred to do the job like a GSP/Vizsla?

OK.

he once was a pup !! of course I have considered that but labs also hunt deer successfully , ducks and pheasants --concepts the same with introducing the hunted species to the animal at a young age and unless you can do game scented farts at will a skin or wing may just ignite that young pup

Get to the basic's.
STOP!!! This is by voice, hand and whistle. Stop also means stay when they have stopped, for however long you want until you give the next command.
Heel/come (one and the same). Voice, hand and whistle.

The dogs naturally learn what you're after when you're skinning whatever it is hanging in the tree at home. They get a few trimmings off that and go "fuck, I like that" simple 2+2 and they are onto it.
The biggest part is you learning what you're dog is telling you in the bush. Now this isn't so easy. It might just be a small twist of the head, or the way they cock their right ear only time will tell. And if you get a pointer it doesn't automatically mean they point, cause a lot don't.

Good advice, doing an article right now on reading your dog.

who you doing that for Ruff?

El B, do you drag a pheasant skin with feathers attached around your lawn then hide it under a bush hoping to train a setter to set pheasants? I didn't think so

I agree entirely with Ruff and RCGSP, skin drags teach nothing if not bad habits in a deer dog. As they mentioned it is instinctive in any dog to follow interesting scent, putting a command on it is very basic. However, I feel there is one crucial thing they have missed in trying to explain it to you. That is, a deer dog primarily works by air scenting, not ground scenting - tracking is another task entirely, and important, but secondary part of the deer dogs repertoire. Air scenting is the main reason the pointing breeds are the weapon of choice for most deer hunters looking for indicating dog, as opposed to dogs that primarily ground scent or find by eye.

Imagine for a second that deer dog work is similar to classic pointer and setter work, except in that the ranging is limited as the dog is your heel, he indicates the find in the same manner; the roading in is prolonged (the stalk in) as deer leave a scent cone a mile wide and you are going quietly; manners after the shot are the same. Bird dog owners have the luxury (perhaps necessity in NZ) of training their bird dogs on simulated game by putting pigeons in launchers - no previous scent training needed. Sadly, as far as I'm aware there isn't a launcher big enough to fit a deer in, so for a deer dog you will have to do it the old-fashioned way, on live game, just like the poms do on grouse moors, run it on live ones until it sorts itself out, after control is instilled in the dog. Hence why everyone says you need to be able to put deer in front of your dog consistently to train it as there is no other way to adequately simulate finding deer - time on the hill with a well behaved dog is the only way.