Thread: 223 on deer

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Its been so wet and with mud like I have never seen it. To get the last deer I shot (the red, above) I had to trudge through a couple of KM of mud to get to my spot. The weather was shit and I was wet and cold. As dark came on I saw 2 deer come out of the scrub but by the time I got over there it was too dark to shoot, but I had already put a torch on the scope bracket in anticipation. When I was about where I thought I could get a shot from I lay down behind the rifle and bipod and flicked the torch on. I had a new 'scope on (3-15 30mm Tract Toric with illuminated dot) the Savage .223 and had never looked through it with a torch mounted. But anyway they were lit up well and I fired at the first one at about 200 yards. Aimed centre shoulder and heard a good whop. I fumbled a bit as I reloaded and cleared a caught case so lost sight of them. Back behind the rifle and onto the second one. Another good whop. Shone the torch around and I could see the second one, but not the other. Found that one and hunted around for the other in the rain and decided I must have missed.

I gutted it and couldn't be fagged humping it back through the mud so hung it over the fence and trudged back to the road. Next morning (I was helping to scan ewes) I said to the cocky that there was a deer out the back he could have if he wanted to collect it on his quad. Finished the days work and came home. Got a text this morning saying thanks for the deer, and there was another dead one 80 yards away. Bugger, How I didn't find it I will never know. Maybe too casual. My bad. So 2 for the .223 and 80 grn Targex, not 1. Bugger.
He sent a pic.

Good stuff.
What does the illuminated reticule look like in the light? Can you still see the dot?

Originally Posted by Shearer

Good stuff.
What does the illuminated reticule look like in the light? Can you still see the dot?

I didn't like it. It didn't seem to be round any more - more triangle looking. So I turned it off. I will fiddle with it a bit. Maybe I had it too bright cos I was in a hurry to get killing stuff.

Good stuff that. Ive been at ohakune this weekend just been trying 223 with 69 GRN game kings on top of 23.7 GRN bm2. Very effective on fallow. 308 too much gun but some impressive shooting. Great trip.

308 never to much gun,just saves a lot of walking n looking.

Originally Posted by Trout

308 never to much gun,just saves a lot of walking n looking.

What have you swapped yours for ?

Same,just longer barrel,18" to 22.25".Less dial up,less noise.

if the deer dies..who really cares what is used???as long as its quick and clean its humaine...END OF STORY
if you are going to gut shoot it,even a 50bmg wont be enough to kill it instantly
poked in its earhole from correct angle just about anything will work.
and a 52grn match bullet and a 52grn varmit bullet are beasts of completely different colours...... speer 52gn hollow points kill VERY VERY well and close enough they wreck a fallow stags shoulder rather well too....left that one on side of hill after finnally admitting it was too far gone to salvage.

What a great thread. Thank you for all the good information.

If I had to choose just one rifle that best suited what I do, it would be a .223. I don't shoot anywhere near as many animals as some other guys on this forum. But I have a steady trickle of meat and pet food coming in as a result of wandering around. I'm retired, and I am fortunate to have access to properties where pests need to be controlled. While I prefer to hunt in the daylight, most of my shooting nowadays is done after dark.

I've shot several deer with a .223 now. The deer below was shot with a Belmont 'Green' cartridge. These have a 55 grain projectile called an MPG. They are lead-free and are probably made by Barnes. I didn't know much about these cartridges when I bought them, but I thought they'd be worth trying. I found them to be very accurate when zeroing my scope at the range. The deer was maybe 120 metres away, and I aimed for the centre of the neck. It dropped immediately. I could not see a bullet hole. I eventually found the tiny entry and exit holes. The bullet had gone through a vertebrae joint without breaking bone and it was fortunate that the spinal cord had been severed. When shooting at smaller game sometimes I found that the bullets 'pencilled' through, other times they exploded and made a heck of a mess. When I was checking the sighting one day, I had my target tacked to the trunk of a six-inch thick trunk on a wilding pine. The bullets went right through which surprised me. Having seen this, I would not recommend these projectiles for body shots. They would be fine for brain shots, and better than nothing if you don't have a choice. Very accurate in my rifle though. The rifle shown is a Ruger American Predator. I chose it for it's Picatinny rail and its relatively long barrel. A bit 'clunky' in operation compared to my Howa, but deadly accurate and it gives me more velocity with some loads.



For a while I had a Pulsar night-vision scope on my Howa. I might have typically taken it out two or three nights a week. It worked very well. I eventually sold the Pulsar, and later replaced it with a Sytong which has served me well. One of the properties I have access to has wide, open paddocks and it can be hard to get close enough to shoot hares and possums with a .22 rimfire. So I've used the .223 most times when I go out. I sometimes carry some simple bamboo shooting sticks to enable me to take a steadier, standing shot. I prefer to shoot from a prone position, but sometimes it is safer to shoot from a standing angle, and sometimes I simply can't see through the grass if I'm lying down. The hare in the photo below was probably shot with standard Belmont Black 55 grain soft points. I believe these loads used to be corked with a Hornady 55 grain soft point, but nowadays I think they use Speer. I could be wrong. But the Belmont 55s are consistently accurate in my rifles.



And here is a nice wee pig. Not sure which projectile I used, but was possibly a Belmont 55 soft point... these cartridges have never disappointed me.



The Belmont ammo is versatile too. If you ever need to cut a fence wire, they will do the job.... even from 70 metres away. I had to go back the next morning and fix the fence.



These were more difficult to get home compared to the usual talley of a couple of possums. Pretty sure I used Belmont 62 grain soft points on this occasion. Very effective, but this particular load doesn't seem to group so well in my rifles compared to the near-perfect Belmont 55 grain options. Not sure now where I aimed. I probably squeezed off carefully on the first hog, then just went for the front end when they started to move off. All one shot kills from memory, and only one didn't drop on the spot... he travelled for just a few metres. Getting all the pigs in one night might be considered a good result, but I missed seeing them on subsequent trips. Big animals are rare on this farm.



You might wonder about the tape and string on my gear. I tie the Howa magazines in place. They can drop out easily because the release lever is easily knocked. I've shortened the lever, but I still like to ensure that I won't lose my magazine. The tape helps me to find my gear if I put it down on the seat of the car or if I drop it in the scrub.




I've been making my own handloads using the brass from my Belmont ammo (ADI). I have had very good results using Speer 70 grain projectiles (stock number 1053) propelled by AR2206H powder. These give me very pleasing groups and they have never disappointed me with their terminal performance on large or small targets (although I don't think I've ever shot at anything over 150 metres away). They have a similar point of impact to the Belmont 55 gr soft points when shot through the Howa, but for some reason their point of impact differs too much from the Belmonts when shot through the Ruger American Predator. They still group consistently, but I have to sight the Predator for just one or the other. I'm fairly sure that I would have used a 70 grain Speer on this spiker.



I have owned rifles chambered in .303 British and .308 Winchester, but I no longer have them. The only other centrefire cartridge I use nowadays is .357 magnum. The .223 has been relatively cheap to reload, and it hasn't been hard to find powder and projectiles. I like the idea that the only primers I need to buy are small rifle as they fit both my centrefire calibres. (Incidentally... I was pleased to see an email from Delta Mike yesterday informing me that they have some small rifle primers for sale... so maybe the drought is starting to ease). The .223 is versatile and effective in the hands of a sensible operator. I doubt that I will ever get a 'bigger' gun.

Great post
This thread continues to be my favourite .
Just had a talley up of my components and I’ve shot approximately 1200 rounds of 223 in the last 12 months.
Vast majority are just playing with load development at targets, but 19 Predators ( Dingoes and Cats ) are no longer with us .

Yes.... While I need comparatively few cartridges for hunting, I have used a heap of of them at range sessions. Always something else to try, or I change or check a scope I'm glad I got a lot of the experimentation done before the component shortages arose.

The good old .223 is an awesome round. Took my Tikka 18" for a walk today no pictures sorry but 13 goats the furtherest was a nanny and kid at 450 yards with the 69grn Targex.
There are a dam good pill.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

Gotta love those 70 grain Speers.

With my limited experience, if I had to pick one projectile from all the .223 bullets I've used, I'd choose the 70 grain Speer. However, none of the other soft pointed bullets I've used have disappointed me. It may not be apparent in the photo, but the MPG projectiles have a small hollow point.



Sighting Distance.
Many folks here will already have this sussed, but in case there are followers who have never really thought about it, here is my thinking on the subject...

For big game hunting I've been a fan of sighting for 'maximum point blank range'..... to me this means zeroing a rifle so that the bullet will theoretically always land within a certain sized circle out to a maximum range. Some people might pick a bigger circle, but for argument's sake let's use a 100mm circle. For a theoretical example, say I have a 55 grain bullet travelling at 900 meters per second and the centre axis of my scope is 38mm above the centre of my bore. According to one ballistic calculation, I will always be able to aim directly at the centre of a boiler-room shot out to 207 metres and the bullet should never be more than 50mm higher or lower than the cross-hairs. A the end of the muzzle, the bullet will be 38 mm low. It will rise to the line of sight and hit where the crosshairs are placed at around 27 metres. The trajectory will peak around 100 metres where the point of impact will be 50mm high. The rifle will be zeroed for 180 metres. At 207 metres the bullet will hit 50mm low.

A maximum point blank range type of sighting will work for all circumstances if the shooter is very familiar where the bullet will be at various ranges. But of course, to be accurate, one needs to know how far away the target is. Without a range finder, even an expert can find it hard to judge distance accurately in unfamiliar territory.

My current thinking tells me it is best to zero my all-purpose, farm-hunting .223 rifle at 100 metres. A .223 is a precision tool well suited to 'varmint' sized targets and meat-saving shots on larger animals. It is good not to have to go through the mental gymnastics of figuring out where to aim if attempting a brain shot at the typical maximum range I'd shoot which is maybe 120 metres.

Theoretically.... if I am using the same rifle and ammo used for the first calculation, but I zero the rifle for 100 metres, I should see results close to the following:
At the muzzle: impact 38mm below the cross-hairs
At 25 metres: 16mm below point of aim
At 50 metres: point of aim more or less matches point of impact
Between 70 and 85 metres the trajectory is at its peak and will hit 4mm high
At 100 metres: spot on
At 120 metres: 11mm low

150 metres: 41mm low
200 metres: 134mm low
250 metres: 283mm low
300 metres: over half a metre low

So using this rifle, I can shoot at anything between 30 and 120 metres without having to worry about compensating for the trajectory. And in my current world most of my shots would be presented within these distances. If my rifle was mostly used for culling goats in open country, then I might zero it closer to 200 metres.

The figures above are just a theoretical example. With different bullet weights, bullet types, powders and barrels, the figures and performance will differ.

And I've found that I am not the expert I thought I was when I was as a teenager. There is a heap I don't know.... or which I could improve on. Always open to ideas and different view points.

No pics sorry. Took the kids out in holidays with the 223. 15 goats and a 130lb boar all taken with the 73g ELD M. None needed a follow up shot. My 11yr old shot the boar at 110mt and 3 goats at 190mtrs. My oldest 13yr old shot 2 at 130mtr and then 2 190mtrs.