Thread: 223 on deer

Find my 1:12 twist on the Browning with Sako 55g gamehead perfectly adequate at 5 metres

So a .223 with a 55 grain bullet is everything negative that everyone claimed about the .223 in the past?

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

So a .223 with a 55 grain bullet is everything negative that everyone claimed about the .223 in the past?

Thats interesting. The negativity probably did arise from poorly placed 55 grain factory ammo. But that does not mean they were inadequate in all circumstances.

I think the .223 won a reputation through the pros using it and lost it through the amateurs using it. The pros and the experienced are still doing OK with the 55 grn cup and core. Even better with lighter monos and "modern" bullets.

But the heavier projectiles stoked along a bit through hand loading certainly are next level.

Originally Posted by Tahr

Thats interesting. The negativity probably did arise from poorly placed 55 grain factory ammo. But that does not mean they were inadequate in all circumstances.

I think the .223 won a reputation through the pros using it and lost it through the amateurs using it. The pros and the experienced are still doing OK with the 55 grn cup and core. Even better with lighter monos and "modern" bullets.

But the heavier projectiles stoked along a bit through hand loading certainly are next level.

I think this is the key point.
I use 55gr sierra #1365 exclusively, as I have 2k. Set up for primarily for foxes.
I wouldn't shoot a fallow unless:
Legal.
Near perfect conditions.
Not a big buck.
Under 180yards.
That's just me. I would come back with my 30.06.

Firstly there are 100s of positive reports here. (Plenty of proof/pics) But perhaps only two dozen where hunters admit to a screw up. This is human nature. But it's my bet the failure rate is much higher with the 223.

Professionals and hunters that are very, very good with the right ammo would do well I'm sure.

But, my bet is many hunters:
(Some or all of below may apply)
Only get out occasionally.
Don't own high end equipment.
Don't practice (field conditions) often enough.
Get buck fever.
Use any ammo anytime.
Don't check zero often.
Never pass up a shot.
Shoot at distances beyond their abilities.
Unable to shoot in wind.
Poor judges of distances.
Over estimated their abilities.
Some don't even consider animal welfare.


IMHO the average hunter would do better with something a bit bigger and/or addressing the above if required.

My 2c.

@Oldbloke, if I selected a .30-06 after being asked to go on a fallow deer meat hunt, i’d probably have my invitation withdrawn. The opinion would land firmly on “way too much gun” and I’d probably be asked what’s wrong with me, can’t I shoot or some thing. And that’s not a joke.

FB, I take plenty of guys to my block for meat deer hunts (fallow mostly). I don't care what they use .308, 30-06 or .223 etc. , i just expect they can use it effectively. Your mates need to worry about more significant matters .

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

I think this is the key point.
I use 55gr sierra #1365 exclusively, as I have 2k. Set up for primarily for foxes.
I wouldn't shoot a fallow unless:
Legal.
Near perfect conditions.
Not a big buck.
Under 180yards.
That's just me. I would come back with my 30.06.

Firstly there are 100s of positive reports here. (Plenty of proof/pics) But perhaps only two dozen where hunters admit to a screw up. This is human nature. But it's my bet the failure rate is much higher with the 223.

Professionals and hunters that are very, very good with the right ammo would do well I'm sure.

But, my bet is many hunters:
(Some or all of below may apply)
Only get out occasionally.
Don't own high end equipment.
Don't practice (field conditions) often enough.
Get buck fever.
Use any ammo anytime.
Don't check zero often.
Never pass up a shot.
Shoot at distances beyond their abilities.
Unable to shoot in wind.
Poor judges of distances.
Over estimated their abilities.
Some don't even consider animal welfare.


IMHO the average hunter would do better with something a bit bigger and/or addressing the above if required.

My 2c.

While I dont agree with you list of things that hunters do, how does having a larger caliber solve any of these things? Better wind bracketing maybe, but this is ammo dependant anyway.

Its an unequivocal fact that even very good shots will shoot a lighter recoiling caliber with greater precision, this is multiplied in lightweight hunting rigs we all shoot. Ive lost count of the times ive seen guys at the range with whatever big boomer that can hita paper plate at sedate ranges like 300m.

Here's the bulk 62 Hornady lead tip jobbies in action. Not me - another forum member (Rod). All around about 150 yds, same day. All bang flops (the top one was a bit floppy after copping one from behind between the shoulders so it got one in the head too). All shoulder shot. Tikka/Swavo combo.
But once again, he's a cool hand (ex culler).

Originally Posted by Dicko

FB, I take plenty of guys to my block for meat deer hunts (fallow mostly). I don't care what they use .308, 30-06 or .223 etc. , i just expect they can use it effectively. Your mates need to worry about more significant matters .

You have misunderstood and hence the somewhat snarky comment. You are forgiven.

The quality of the carcass is the primary consideration when fallow meet hunting. On these properties when venison is required, fallow is preferred over red. You can use whatever you like but if you bring carcasses back with the forequarters blown to bits you definitely will not get invited back. So the preference is precision shooting for the head or neck with an accurate, light weight, low recoiling rifle.

just another example of different standards, from one side of the ditch to the other.

I took a guy to private land hunting fallow, the farmer asked us what we were using? My mate said 7mm 08, he looked at him as if to say WTF, I said I was using a 223 and the farmer said now thats better.

I find the 223 with hand loads perfect for fallow but I won't tell Tahr that as I love to give him shit.
On reds I'll always take my 30 06 in case a long shot or a good stag pops up and I want to be certain of results

@Flyblown

Got issues with quoting ATM

Mmmm,
Load is 130gr @2600fps, very mild.
I'm on public land, not a farm mate so, no owner to tell me what to use.
If I loose some shoulder meat I don't care.
I don't head shoot. If the head moves at the wrong time I could have a deer with face or jaw missing running flat out in the bush. Not what I want.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

.....

How many deer have you shot with 223 and 75-80gr bullets?

What species, placement, ranges, and how many have you lost?

Originally Posted by top of the south

I find the 223 with hand loads perfect for fallow but I won't tell Tahr that as I love to give him shit.
On reds I'll always take my 30 06 in case a long shot or a good stag pops up and I want to be certain of results

So, if you won't use a 223 on reds you understand that a 30.06 does more damage than a 223. Obviously increased organ damage will likely speed up death or increase likelihood of blood trail. Both advantages IMO.

If 30.06 has no advantage over the 223 why not use it on sambar or Wapiti stags?

A. It does more damage.

Originally Posted by Oldbloke

But it's my bet the failure rate is much higher with the 223.
.

Specifically which posters on this thread do you reckon are liars?