Thread: 223 on deer

To get the best from .223 requires a non-factory magazine in most cases. AICS is an easy option.

New production Remington 700s have a 1:8" twist and AICS mag kits are common and easy for the 700.

Originally Posted by BRADS

1:12 is bit like a 270 the only people that think it cool are the people that have one the rest just no its not

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Oh that's just cruel.....

Originally Posted by earplay

Too much time on this thread is bad for the .223 fomo.

Regarding the heavy pills - aside from twist rate, is mag length a limiting factor to suitable coal? Are there any particular models/brands that won't work with the heavies, assuming I'd want to mag feed?

57mm is to cannalure on most projectiles,the Speer 70 GRN works at that length as does same weight Hornady. Mines between pig n poke though as is 1:10

Originally Posted by gimp

To get the best from .223 requires a non-factory magazine in most cases. AICS is an easy option.

New production Remington 700s have a 1:8" twist and AICS mag kits are common and easy for the 700.

Some Bergaras come with AICS mags as factory e.g the Stoke model but it has a 1:9" twist....

And the extreme hunter model has 1:8 twist but not AICS....

Ok so I've asked this before...with various differing answers... But tentman doing the 3 rifle test brings it back up... A 1:12 twist doing 3000 fps = 180,000 rpm ....so a 1:8 twist is half that again =270,000rpm..... So it figures the fast twist will fragment,blow up,open out faster,better....yet I have never seen it tested out. A varmint pill that's explody in 1:12 must be borderline vapourising in fast twist... The monos that need speed to open in 1:12 must open at lower speed in faster twist.... So maybe,just maybe the awesome results you fellas are seeing is combination of BOTH the heavier weight and better expansion????

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ok so I've asked this before...with various differing answers... But tentman doing the 3 rifle test brings it back up... A 1:12 twist doing 3000 fps = 180,000 rpm ....so a 1:8 twist is half that again =270,000rpm..... So it figures the fast twist will fragment,blow up,open out faster,better....yet I have never seen it tested out. A varmint pill that's explody in 1:12 must be borderline vapourising in fast twist... The monos that need speed to open in 1:12 must open at lower speed in faster twist.... So maybe,just maybe the awesome results you fellas are seeing is combination of BOTH the heavier weight and better expansion????

Thanks @mickeyduck, I was just about to ask why 1:8 isn’t just standard across the board in new .223 rifles, since mine shoots 55gr soft points just fine ( can’t imagine too many people are shooting lighter than 55). You just answered my question

No good reason why 1:8 isn't standard. Inertia because 1:12 was the original saami spec

Hornady really needs to develop a new cartridge.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

Hornady really needs to develop a new cartridge.

Probably a 5.6mm Creedsmall or Creedless...

Originally Posted by gimp

No good reason why 1:8 isn't standard. Inertia because 1:12 was the original saami spec

The explody projectiles would need to be loaded at lower velocity if 1:8 was used.... The very reason the likes of 22-250 were 1:14 in the first place,projectiles couldn't handle the extra forces pulling them apart.

They fly and work fine. I've used as light as 40gr varmint bullets from my 1:8. It's a theoretical problem that doesn't exist in reality

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

The explody projectiles would need to be loaded at lower velocity if 1:8 was used.... The very reason the likes of 22-250 were 1:14 in the first place,projectiles couldn't handle the extra forces pulling them apart.

Don’t know Mickey but I run 50gr SPSX and Speer hp at about 3350 fps and 40gr V Max at about 3600 fps ok in the Howa I mentioned in previous post. Maybe not as fast as 22-250 but fast enough for me on magpies, rabbits and hares.

My thoughts on twist V speed, is the individal project type matters.
Type of ogive, amount bearing surface of projectile.
Resent trial with 62g edl- vts in 8 twist was not a success, long projectile amazing bc for lite weight, a very short bearing surface & a secant ogive making them seating fussy. Pushed them as fast as I could, No. Slowed them down & worse. Different powders, primers, use half a box, so moved on.
Have to find what works in your rifle, mate with same rifle -shoots 52 targex amazingly.

Originally Posted by flock

My thoughts on twist V speed, is the individal project type matters.
Type of ogive, amount bearing surface of projectile.
Resent trial with 62g edl- vts in 8 twist was not a success, long projectile amazing bc for lite weight, a very short bearing surface & a secant ogive making them seating fussy. Pushed them as fast as I could, No. Slowed them down & worse. Different powders, primers, use half a box, so moved on.
Have to find what works in your rifle, mate with same rifle -shoots 52 targex amazingly.

52 Targex are great. Work in my 1:8 and 1:9. Punch way above their weight on deer. 3250 fps.

Originally Posted by Tahr

52 Targex are great. Work in my 1:8 and 1:9. Punch way above their weight on deer. 3250 fps.

Berger’s J4 jackets are the right thickness around the meplat to ogive area for a hunting projectile.

In the 90s Bob Cautericio researched the heck out of projectile jacket thicknesses and decided Berger had it sorted, so he used them with his 168 grainers in 7 mm with huge success with the US “ canyon” shooters at the time, -long range hunting then became a thing