Thread: Half cock or safety

Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

I'm not an expert on these matters however I'm certain that my M70 is cocked on closing the bolt. (late model CRF)

No it's not. After firing, when you lift the bolt handle that action is compressing the firing pin spring and cocking the firing pin. Cock on closing is like a Lee Enfield type action.

Originally Posted by Makros

No it's not. After firing, when you open the bolt that action is compressing the firing pin spring and cocking the firing pin. Cock on closing is like a Lee Enfield type action.

yes AND no..... because the striker is not in the open groove untill handle is rotated..so yes spring is in the same position as when ready to fire..but unless sear is enguaged it will slide down the "ramp' as bolt handle is rotated...its not cocked..as such until it is held by sear

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yes AND no..... because the striker is not in the open groove untill handle is rotated..so yes spring is in the same position as when ready to fire..but unless sear is enguaged it will slide down the "ramp' as bolt handle is rotated...its not cocked..as such until it is held by sear

You misunderstand the meaning of cocked. The firing pin is cocked no matter whether it is retained by the sear or not. The M70 and most of our modern rifles are based off the Gewehr M98 a "cock on opening" action.

Originally Posted by Makros

You misunderstand the meaning of cocked. The firing pin is cocked no matter whether it is retained by the sear or not. The M70 and most of our modern rifles are based off the Gewehr M98 a "cock on opening" action.

nope I do not...a hammer gun is cocked when the hammer is pulled completely back and held by the sear...it is on half cock when it is not all the way back,it sits in a position where it cant touch fireing pin and needs to go back before going forward
on a SMLE the striker stays forward in the bolt untill bolt is nearly forward,the sear enguages the striker and as bolt pushed forwards and then locked down the sriker stays put..cocked ready to fly forward when sear disinguaged/trigger pulled
on modern bolt the spring does indeed get get stretched when bolt handle is lifted..but until sear is enguaged its not cocked...OR you could argue its cocked with bolt removed from rifle as the spring is in the same position

so..the HAMMER/striker is in a position that it is HELD by sear in a strike ready position in order to be "cocked"

if you put a brick on your toe..its down..it you lift it 12" up in air...its ready to drop....... if your leg is against brick and at 45 degree angle and you let go the brick will slide down leg...sort of like a semi open bolt
whatever you decide to do..muzzle control is the key to being safe....dont point it anywhere that it will be a problem if it somehow went off.

Originally Posted by Makros

No it's not. After firing, when you lift the bolt handle that action is compressing the firing pin spring and cocking the firing pin. Cock on closing is like a Lee Enfield type action.

Okay so just been to the gun safe and had a little play and I concede you are correct.

I didn't necessarily wanted a debate on the issue just curious as to what the consensus is, might have been easier to ask which is better, Ford or Holden.

Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

Okay so just been to the gun safe and had a little play and I concede you are correct.

I didn't necessarily wanted a debate on the issue just curious as to what the consensus is, might have been easier to ask which is better, Ford or Holden.

Don't worry about it won't be the first or the last soon to be multi page thread on half-cock. The continued theme to me is it's widely misunderstood and many are using are really unstable position on their rifle.

Try the half cock position on your M70 and give the trigger a good old squeeze. See what happens, I can't tell you as I've owned one M70 and handled several others and some release the sear, some don't. Seems to be solely down to the tolerances in the individual rifle.

Originally Posted by Makros

Don't worry about it won't be the first or the last soon to be multi page thread on half-cock. The continued theme to me is it's widely misunderstood and many are using are really unstable position on their rifle.

Try the half cock position on your M70 and give the trigger a good old squeeze. See what happens, I can't tell you as I've owned one M70 and handled several others and some release the sear, some don't. Seems to be solely down to the tolerances in the individual rifle.

and also just where the bolt is sitting when you do it.

Originally Posted by Makros

Don't worry about it won't be the first or the last soon to be multi page thread on half-cock. The continued theme to me is it's widely misunderstood and many are using are really unstable position on their rifle.

Try the half cock position on your M70 and give the trigger a good old squeeze. See what happens, I can't tell you as I've owned one M70 and handled several others and some release the sear, some don't. Seems to be solely down to the tolerances in the individual rifle.

Okay, just tried that, finger hurts, firing pin didn't release.

It's occurred to me that these are useful interactions as none us know everything and anything we do know was either learnt through hard earnt experience or by someone teaching us.

Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

Okay, just tried that, finger hurts, firing pin didn't release.

That's comforting, I still wouldn't recommend using it, haha.

Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

Okay so just been to the gun safe and had a little play and I concede you are correct.

I didn't necessarily wanted a debate on the issue just curious as to what the consensus is, might have been easier to ask which is better, Ford or Holden.

today Greg Murphy was speaker at work do..in his garage is a 1600 sport escort......

Originally Posted by Makros

No it's not. After firing, when you lift the bolt handle that action is compressing the firing pin spring and cocking the firing pin. Cock on closing is like a Lee Enfield type action.

Maybe rephrase your statement once you will have put your hands on a Winchester 70.
The m70 is kind of 2/3 cock on opening and 1/3 cock on closing.( or 3/4-1/4) So 7mm tragic is not completely wrong and your not completely right either.

Originally Posted by Friwi

Maybe rephrase your statement once you will have put your hands on a Winchester 70.
The m70 is kind of 2/3 cock on opening and 1/3 cock on closing.( or 3/4-1/4) So 7mm tragic is not completely wrong and your not completely right either.

I have owned a M70 it's no different than any other cock on opening rifle.